4 ms·

I was assuming it had jurisdiction over the EU? What is the actual real world impact of this?

by max_ 3y ago

yreg 3y ago
The European Court of Human Rights enforces the European Convention on Human Rights. Its jurisdiction is recognised by the 46 member states of Council of Europe (which includes all of the 27 EU members) + Kosovo.
Deukhoofd 3y ago
It's a part of the Council of Europe, which includes all European countries besides Russia and Belarus (who got kicked out last year). It has no real enforcement powers for its judgements, though most countries do adopt most its judgements, and it has pushed human rights in Europe forward a lot. While the EU could potentially just ignore the statement, there's a good chance they won't, especially as the European Parliament already tends to be against weakening encryption.
- tpm 3y ago
  EU can't ignore it - while the ECHR is separate from the EU, the EU itself is legally bound to follow the ECHR rulings.
  - Deukhoofd 3y ago
    ECtHR rulings have been ignored in the past by members. Italy for example currently has over 2000 verdicts unimplemented. The ECtHR orders a country to implement changes to improve the situation, but does not set a deadline, so members could just ignore it.
  - M2Ys4U 3y ago
    >the EU itself is legally bound to follow the ECHR rulings You'd think so, but it actually isn't. All of the EU's member states are, but the EU and its institutions aren't. The EU is legally bound to join the Council of Europe (and thus come under the jurisdiction of the ECHR), except the EU's Court of Justice threw a spanner in the works quite a while ago and this is on hold, pretty much indefinitely. The conflict is that the CJEU is supposed to be the authoritative interpreter of EU law, but if the EU joins the CoE then the ECHR could also rule on matters of EU law, potentially binding the CJEU, and it doesn't like that very much.
    - Deukhoofd 3y ago
      > this is on hold, pretty much indefinitely It's not, negotiations started again in 2020. https://www.coe.int/en/web/human-rights-intergovernmental-cooperation/accession-of-the-european-union-to-the-european-convention-on-human-rights#{%2230166137%22:[0] https://www.coe.int/en/web/human-rights-intergovernmental-co...}
      - M2Ys4U 3y ago
        oh! I had totally missed that, thanks
rsynnott 3y ago
The EU requires EU members to be subject to the ECHR, but it is a separate body and various non-EU countries are subject to it (though, particularly outside the EU, compliance varies).

I was assuming it had jurisdiction over the EU? What is the actual real world impact of this?

by max_ 3y ago

I was assuming it had jurisdiction over the EU? What is the actual real world impact of this?

yreg 3y ago

The European Court of Human Rights enforces the European Convention on Human Rights. Its jurisdiction is recognised by the 46 member states of Council of Europe (which includes all of the 27 EU members) + Kosovo.

Deukhoofd 3y ago

It's a part of the Council of Europe, which includes all European countries besides Russia and Belarus (who got kicked out last year). It has no real enforcement powers for its judgements, though most countries do adopt most its judgements, and it has pushed human rights in Europe forward a lot. While the EU could potentially just ignore the statement, there's a good chance they won't, especially as the European Parliament already tends to be against weakening encryption.

tpm 3y ago
EU can't ignore it - while the ECHR is separate from the EU, the EU itself is legally bound to follow the ECHR rulings.
- Deukhoofd 3y ago
  ECtHR rulings have been ignored in the past by members. Italy for example currently has over 2000 verdicts unimplemented. The ECtHR orders a country to implement changes to improve the situation, but does not set a deadline, so members could just ignore it.
- M2Ys4U 3y ago
  >the EU itself is legally bound to follow the ECHR rulings You'd think so, but it actually isn't. All of the EU's member states are, but the EU and its institutions aren't. The EU is legally bound to join the Council of Europe (and thus come under the jurisdiction of the ECHR), except the EU's Court of Justice threw a spanner in the works quite a while ago and this is on hold, pretty much indefinitely. The conflict is that the CJEU is supposed to be the authoritative interpreter of EU law, but if the EU joins the CoE then the ECHR could also rule on matters of EU law, potentially binding the CJEU, and it doesn't like that very much.
  - Deukhoofd 3y ago
    > this is on hold, pretty much indefinitely It's not, negotiations started again in 2020. https://www.coe.int/en/web/human-rights-intergovernmental-cooperation/accession-of-the-european-union-to-the-european-convention-on-human-rights#{%2230166137%22:[0] https://www.coe.int/en/web/human-rights-intergovernmental-co...}
    - M2Ys4U 3y ago
      oh! I had totally missed that, thanks

rsynnott 3y ago

The EU requires EU members to be subject to the ECHR, but it is a separate body and various non-EU countries are subject to it (though, particularly outside the EU, compliance varies).