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tbh the best thing about Matrix is that you have a hope in hell of actually federating it. XMPP had that promise but due the XEP situation it quickly became di

by dijit 3y ago

tbh the best thing about Matrix is that you have a hope in hell of actually federating it. XMPP had that promise but due the XEP situation it quickly became difficult to actually federate as most XEPs are optional or not supported on your federation partners. Everything you said is true; if you can tolerate centralisation then just stick to XMPP, it's pretty good.

upofadown 3y ago
What XEP interoperability issues prevent federation?
- dijit 3y ago
  There are more than 370 XEPs. Here's the first one I found that causes server<->server incompatibility: https://xmpp.org/extensions/attic/xep-0369-0.7.1.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/attic/xep-0369-0.7.1.html What was always missing was a golden set of standards. Maybe XMPP "2" is XMPP and a set of XEPs and so on. Otherwise all you have is a bunch of half-working XMPP implementations. Very famous ones of course include voice/video. The UX on that is atrocious.
  - wiktor-k 3y ago
    > Here's the first one I found that causes server<->server incompatibility: https://xmpp.org/extensions/attic/xe https://xmpp.org/extensions/attic/xe What kind of incompatibilities does it cause? It's an unfinished spec for group chats, which, to my knowledge is barely implemented anywhere. Just for the record I'm using both XMPP and Matrix daily and both have issues :/
zaik 3y ago
> difficult to actually federate as most XEPs are optional or not supported on your federation partners This is false.
- dijit 3y ago
  Voice/Video is an optional XEP and if it's not supported what happens to the client exactly? "this is false" is a terribly glib statement with literally no backing and can only be said if a person has either zero knowledge of what they're talking about or they've tied themselves to a single implementation of XMPP everywhere, which is essentially standardising a bunch of XEPs.
  - zaik 3y ago
    In Conversations if A/V is not supported, you do not get a button to call them. The people I text most use Conversations, Monal or Gajim which are all independent implementations.
  - jesprenj 3y ago
    Well if you use a matrix client that does not support video calls (Syphon), you also can't be called. Camera and microphone are not a mandatory feature of Matrix either (;
jesprenj 3y ago
Why centralization? XMPP users are identified with their JID in format username@server.example, similar to email addresses. And server to server communication is very well documented and major XMPP servers for instant messaging (ejabberd and prosody) both allow server to server message exchange. I don't see any benefits for Matrix when it comes to federation and I wouldn't agree with you that by using XMPP you tolerare centralisation at all. It's level of centralisation is comparable to that of email (and email is very well federated in my opinion). MUCs like the XEP you mentioned are handled by a different XEP.

by dijit 3y ago

upofadown 3y ago

What XEP interoperability issues prevent federation?

dijit 3y ago
There are more than 370 XEPs. Here's the first one I found that causes server<->server incompatibility: https://xmpp.org/extensions/attic/xep-0369-0.7.1.html https://xmpp.org/extensions/attic/xep-0369-0.7.1.html What was always missing was a golden set of standards. Maybe XMPP "2" is XMPP and a set of XEPs and so on. Otherwise all you have is a bunch of half-working XMPP implementations. Very famous ones of course include voice/video. The UX on that is atrocious.
- wiktor-k 3y ago
  > Here's the first one I found that causes server<->server incompatibility: https://xmpp.org/extensions/attic/xe https://xmpp.org/extensions/attic/xe What kind of incompatibilities does it cause? It's an unfinished spec for group chats, which, to my knowledge is barely implemented anywhere. Just for the record I'm using both XMPP and Matrix daily and both have issues :/

zaik 3y ago

> difficult to actually federate as most XEPs are optional or not supported on your federation partners This is false.

dijit 3y ago
Voice/Video is an optional XEP and if it's not supported what happens to the client exactly? "this is false" is a terribly glib statement with literally no backing and can only be said if a person has either zero knowledge of what they're talking about or they've tied themselves to a single implementation of XMPP everywhere, which is essentially standardising a bunch of XEPs.
- zaik 3y ago
  In Conversations if A/V is not supported, you do not get a button to call them. The people I text most use Conversations, Monal or Gajim which are all independent implementations.
- jesprenj 3y ago
  Well if you use a matrix client that does not support video calls (Syphon), you also can't be called. Camera and microphone are not a mandatory feature of Matrix either (;

jesprenj 3y ago

Why centralization? XMPP users are identified with their JID in format username@server.example, similar to email addresses. And server to server communication is very well documented and major XMPP servers for instant messaging (ejabberd and prosody) both allow server to server message exchange. I don't see any benefits for Matrix when it comes to federation and I wouldn't agree with you that by using XMPP you tolerare centralisation at all. It's level of centralisation is comparable to that of email (and email is very well federated in my opinion). MUCs like the XEP you mentioned are handled by a different XEP.