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No, I don't have any problem about claiming interoperability in this context as it is completely orthogonal. You could also claim that not having animated gifs

No, I don't have any problem about claiming interoperability in this context as it is completely orthogonal. You could also claim that not having animated gifs also makes it unusable for 99% of the population (an statement I might even agree with) and it would be irrelevant to interoperability. iOS simply sucks here and lowering down your pants to marry yourself to the whims of these insane "platforms" if anything most likely reduces your interoperability. You should be realistic and consider that there is no point to any "E2EE" messaging solution on iOS as _by construction_ all the metadata (at the very least) is going to be leaked to Apple (and they in turn will leak that to the authorities, as was pointed in HN quite recently), precisely by the push notifications crap you'd be forced to adopt as part of the pants lowering requiered to support iOS.

rglullis 3y ago
> iOS simply sucks here and lowering down your pants to marry yourself to the whims of these insane "platforms" We can be here grandstanding and dismissing other people's choices or we can be pragmatic and find ways to grow the alternative networks to the point where the "mainstream" can no longer ignore it. If you want to continue using XMPP, great. But those that are on Apple are not going to drop their beloved iDevices just because we are telling them how cool XMPP is. Your inflexibility will do nothing but keep you isolated and able to talk with a handful of other people that are stubborn as you. However, if you let yourself accept that encouraging other people to adopt Matrix will at the same time (a) bring progress to those on iOS and (b) increase the utility of your own XMPP server, as now there will be more people being able to reach you through a bridge.
- AshamedCaptain 3y ago
  > We can be here grandstanding and dismissing other people's choices or we can be pragmatic and find ways to grow the alternative networks to the point where the "mainstream" can no longer ignore it. I have been trying the pragmatic way for over 30 years and it. simply. doesn't. work. The mainstream will drop privacy, federation, and anything in a heartbeat just because the new network comes with a client which can do animated GIFs. There's simply no way to continuously try to match the race of ever-diminishing-usefulness features and if you even try to point that then someone calls you "dismissive and grandstanding". The only (possible) way forward is legislation. Carrots do not work.
  - rglullis 3y ago
    > The mainstream will drop privacy, federation, and anything in a heartbeat just because the new network comes with a client which can do animated GIFs. ICQ had animated gifs. MSN had animated gifs. Viber has animated gifs. Telegram has animated gifs. Why shouldn't people expect animated gifs from any decent messenger? Who are we to police what people should prefer for such a crucial piece of technology?

rglullis 3y ago

> iOS simply sucks here and lowering down your pants to marry yourself to the whims of these insane "platforms" We can be here grandstanding and dismissing other people's choices or we can be pragmatic and find ways to grow the alternative networks to the point where the "mainstream" can no longer ignore it. If you want to continue using XMPP, great. But those that are on Apple are not going to drop their beloved iDevices just because we are telling them how cool XMPP is. Your inflexibility will do nothing but keep you isolated and able to talk with a handful of other people that are stubborn as you. However, if you let yourself accept that encouraging other people to adopt Matrix will at the same time (a) bring progress to those on iOS and (b) increase the utility of your own XMPP server, as now there will be more people being able to reach you through a bridge.

AshamedCaptain 3y ago
> We can be here grandstanding and dismissing other people's choices or we can be pragmatic and find ways to grow the alternative networks to the point where the "mainstream" can no longer ignore it. I have been trying the pragmatic way for over 30 years and it. simply. doesn't. work. The mainstream will drop privacy, federation, and anything in a heartbeat just because the new network comes with a client which can do animated GIFs. There's simply no way to continuously try to match the race of ever-diminishing-usefulness features and if you even try to point that then someone calls you "dismissive and grandstanding". The only (possible) way forward is legislation. Carrots do not work.
- rglullis 3y ago
  > The mainstream will drop privacy, federation, and anything in a heartbeat just because the new network comes with a client which can do animated GIFs. ICQ had animated gifs. MSN had animated gifs. Viber has animated gifs. Telegram has animated gifs. Why shouldn't people expect animated gifs from any decent messenger? Who are we to police what people should prefer for such a crucial piece of technology?