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Mark Zuckerberg says Quest 3 'is the better product, period'
- bdcravens 3y agoI don't know if it's the better product or not, but the release of the Vision Pro has probably been the best marketing for the Quest that Meta could hope for.
- qiine 3y agowhy ?
- TulliusCicero 3y agoI'm guessing: makes people potentially interested in a VR headset, but some of them will be put off by the high price and will look for another option, and the Quest 3 is kind of the obvious choice for most consumers.
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoA rising tide lifts all boats. Now that Apple has kickstarted the AR/VR hype to mainstream people, means the other device makers can piggyback on that free advertising the VR/AR industry is getting, and they also now have more competition and incentive to invest in them instead of thinking the market is dead and giving up on it. See the Quest 3. Before the AVP people were saying $500 is too expensive for a VR headset, but the Zuck can now advertise it as a AVP alternative that's more functional and also 7x cheaper than what the AVP offers for the money, now that Apple set the market price point. Apple joining the club is a win-win for the industry players and the consumers.
- sho_hn 3y agoAnd really, there are some absolutely legitimate arguments included here. When I tried the AVP I found it somewhat claustrophobic compared to the Quest, owing to the narrower field of view. The "world feel" of the Quest is just better, though the heart yearns for the combo of that screen res and that FOV.
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoWhich Quest, the 3 or the Pro? But I agree with you. The current crop of headsets has too narrow FoV, especially the AVP. They're less VR/AR and more like "binoculars vision" lol. They need to go wider before they get to replace our vision.
- sho_hn 3y agoI've only tried the Quest 3, not the Quest Pro. I think the 3 even had a few deg more than the Quest Pro, iirc? It feels 10-15 over the AVP, from the gut.
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoI think it's something like 110 degrees VS 95 degrees on the Quest 3 vs AVP respectively.
- dougmwne 3y agoBecause it’s an interesting product that many new to VR users would be curious to try. It’s also so expensive that nearly no one will buying it. But they can experience 80% of a Vision Pro media and productivity experience with the Quest 3, plus a bunch of VR and gaming experiences that the Vision Pro can’t do.
- sho_hn 3y agoAnd this video is basically "it's OK to buy a Quest 3, here's a few arguments you can tell your buddies to justify why you made the smarter choice - just do it now".
- magixx 3y agoLikely that it was over 3x the price of the Quest 2 and while it had better hardware it mostly felt like an incremental update. Part of this is definitely because not enough software took advantage of the new hardware it had (i.e. eye tracking). It also didn't help that it was released near the end of the Quest 2 life cycle and people could predict that a more consumer friendly version would be released in the near future. The Quest 3 was announced ~6mo later and released a year after the Quest Pro.
- bdcravens 3y agoVision Pro is getting a ton of coverage right now, and a common comment is that the Quest 3 does all the same things for a fraction of the price. (can't speak to the claim, it's just what I've heard a lot of)
- nickthegreek 3y agoTrue. I picked up the Quest 3 after seeing a million AVP videos. I used to have a Quest 2 a few years ago and the Quest 3 is nice upgrade. I doubt I would have done this without all the AVP content everywhere I look.
- doix 3y agoHe's _probably_ right that for the majority of people, the Quest would be better. Towards the end, when he starts talking about the open vs closed model, I find it pretty depressing that meta is the "open" model in this case. I'm pretty sure you still require a Meta account to use the headset. Not sure I consider that "open". I would love to have a headset that was running Simula (or something similar). I tried Simula with a Valve Index and the resolution was just too low for me. But I could definitely feel like it was "the future". I travel a lot now and work on one laptop screen. Having a small(ish) headset that I could travel with and then have a VR workspace instead of a single laptop monitor has the potential to be game changing (maybe). [0] https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula
- zitterbewegung 3y agoIs the quest better yes for most people you basically won’t be able to afford it and the best selling point of the quest is the software library and games with the special controllers. This is what most people do with headsets right now regardless . Will the quest ever really break into the productivity space with apples headset? Probably as a Chromebook like device and Apple controlling the high margin ground which I think is most likely . The main problem with headsets is that the pass through isn’t as seamless as Apple’s and it can always get cheaper and faster .
- goosedragons 3y agoI think it could easily surpass AVP as a productivity device if they added built in support for running a Linux distro on top of the Android kernel and there was a way to have free floating X11/Wayland app windows that are fully supported. You can already do a lot of this with Termux but you can't easily reposition windows and it's not as easy as it should be. There is also just weird limitations about resizing sideloaded apps in close distance mode.
- doix 3y agoYes! That's exactly what I'm picturing. Running i3wm/sway (depending if I get X11 or Wayland) with N number of monitors laid out like I want. Then the actual development happens on my laptop or maybe the cloud with something like codespaces or whatever the competitors are. I don't really know much about that space. In my head, I can imagine it being amazing. On the other hand, I can't see myself ever using the AVP, because I'm sure Apple would lock it down too much. Right now, I'm pretty sure my girlfriends iPad pro would be good enough to replace my laptop. All the hardware is there, it even has usbc so theoretically I could hook up an external monitor and my keyboard. But the software is just too locked down to be of any use. I'm fairly confident that will be the case with the AVP as well (it definitely is today).
- darknoon 3y agoI think Vision Pro isn't really a product, it's for developers / early adopters to make apps that will then be available once a consumer version is ready.
- sho_hn 3y agoIn that case they may want to subsidize those $3500 devkits more.
- square_usual 3y agoThey don't need to.
- cesarvarela 3y agoFor a devkit it is on the cheap side.
- sho_hn 3y agoDepends. There are other cases of expensive devkits, yes (Sony PlayStation at times, if I recall), but e.g. Xbox will rent them out to you for free or very cheaply. In my industry the cost of a test bench is also higher, sure.
- vagab0nd 3y agoFor me, this video goes to show how communication is key. Zuck probably took some public speaking tutoring and now everybody loves him.
- fullshark 3y agoEverybody loves him?
- chankstein38 3y agoHonestly watching this video I went from "This damned weird ass alien dude" to still hating Meta and Facebook for Facebook but also feeling like he may actually be the more human of the billionaires. Surely beats out Musk... Meta has also been releasing somewhat open source models and new research... I'm hoping Zuck has realized his market is in open source and they continue to push their products in that direction. Disclaimer: I am not saying that I'm a fanboy but at the very least videos like this take Zuck from "Alien Man who likes Sweet Baby Ray's" to "Well, he's not the _worst_ billionaire."
- fullshark 3y agoGlad people are starting to come around. Zuckerberg got a bad wrap for many years cause people HATE the facebook product, he's always been a good advocate for the underlying tech independent of product though imo. He's been probably the most important figure in increasing developer salaries (along with VCs looking to pump and dump software companies in a zero interest rate environment) the last 10 years as he bid aggressively for talent to build out FB, and showed it was worth it. Before he hit the scene the older big tech companies had an illegal no-poaching agreement to depress salaries. I do wonder if this newfound respect/admiration is because he's one of the last founder/CEOs of software big tech and FB stock has more than doubled in a year.
- IOT_Apprentice 3y agoA bad rap? Go back and look at his own words about those around him at the beginning. It was sociopathic. Facebook has been part of the problem of the decline of critical thinking and rational discourse, destroying families in the process.
- becquerel 3y agoIt is interesting to see him be so bullish with his messaging. I kinda like it.
- x86x87 3y agoLet's figure out if it's better: Can you watch porn on the Quest 3? Yes, yes you can.
- kstrauser 3y agoThat’s reason number 1 why suggest friends never get Quest. “Take your most sensitive behavior, then run it through Facebook. What could possibly go wrong?”
- x86x87 3y agoNot saying it'd a good idea. Was just pointing out that it is possible. Also the Apple Privacy dog and pony show is getting old and most people nowadays see right through it.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- kstrauser 3y agoQuest 3 doesn’t exist in my world, because there’s no way I’m buying Facebook hardware and connecting it to my LAN.
- iso8859-1 3y agoFacebook is contributing to Linux, which controls your hardware. Why make a distinction between hardware and software?
- kstrauser 3y agoBecause someone not-Facebook is auditing their Linux work before I install it in my living room.
- onemoresoop 3y agoDo you need to have a facebook account to use linux? I don't think so... They would if they could but fortunately their contribution to linux don't do any of that.
- jayd16 3y agoIf its about connecting to the LAN, you could just make a locked down network.
- kstrauser 3y agoSounds like way more work than just not buying Facebook hardware. It’s more than only just protecting the LAN, though. From their track record, I assume everything I do in Quest will be tracked, analyzed, and monetized in great detail. I might be convinced to trust Facebook hardware, or least not to care too much about my privacy, for gaming and only for gaming. I’d never consider it for anything else.
- kotaKat 3y agoZuck is scared.
- wmeredith 3y agoThis is a shocking take from–checks notes–the maker of the Quest 3.
- Thaxll 3y agoBecause of the price the Vision Pro will never sell to the mass anyway, even if the tech is better.
- nirav72 3y agoI don't think Apple's intention/expectations were that the masses would buy the Vision Pro. At least not the first couple of iterations. If anything, its more likely a test bed to see if there is a future in it.
- londons_explore 3y agoPeople said that about iPhones that cost $1500. Yet they still sell to the masses. The masses just decided they preferred to have a blue bubble than to go on vacation each year.
- martythemaniak 3y agoFuture iterations of the Vision will be far more like the Quest than the other way around. Apple built a great VR headset but they go to ridiculous lengths to not call it that, so much so that they've engineered a bunch of impressive, but useless and expensive tech to support their marketing. Specifically, future versions will drop the expensive outside screen and drop the heavy and expensive glass and aluminum in favour of simple light plastic. There's tons of ink being spilled today about "VR" vs "Spacial Computing", about how "lonely" and "alienating" the tech is, etc. But as these headsets become common everybody will forget this. Talking to someone wearing a VR headset will not require an external screen with weird eyes, it will be just like talking to someone wearing sunglasses, ie completely unremarkable.
- andrewla 3y agoI have long been skeptical of the entire field of VR and AR and "mixed reality" stuff. At some point I can see AR being a useful thing, but only when it reaches a much higher level of unobtrusiveness. I got a Quest 2 for my son, and having played around with it for a bit, I stand by my view. There are some neat applications, but for the most part it seems like something that will start gathering dust once the novelty wears off. What is the "killer app" that people see here?
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago>I got a Quest 2 for my son, and having played around with it for a bit, I stand by my view. There are some neat applications, but for the most part it seems like something that will start gathering dust once the novelty wears off. The exact thing will be happening to the AVP once the hype and novelty wears off. It's neat for a few apps and use cases, but nothing game changing YET for the entire consumer base to convince average people they REALLY need to go out and by one, other than that every tech youtuber and influencer has one to show off. I think the big changes will come in the future once it becomes more mainstream and more killer aps come to them.
- ronnier 3y agoNone. Of the people I know who have one, use it for the first couple of weeks then rarely touch it ever again. My son would rather play pc games. Only thing I’d like to use one is to watch movies in bed.
- TulliusCicero 3y agoVR tech still isn't ready for truly mass adoption, but there's definitely cool stuff in there. It's just not for everyone. I think it'll get there eventually, but it's gonna take a long time. > What is the "killer app" that people see here? For some people (myself included), it's Beat Saber. Super fun rhythm game that wouldn't work outside of VR. Very useful for exercise. In fact, VR is good for exercise in general. There's a lot of rhythm/fitness/sports games, or ones that aren't explicitly targeted at that area but still give you a workout, like Gorilla Tag. Having a big library of games-that-are-also-exercise that you can use at home is a big benefit. If you're the kind of person who likes games, this is probably a more effective use of your money than, say, a treadmill. Of course, some people like various VR games for their own sake. Playing something like Blade & Sorcery or Dungeons of Eternity is certainly much more immersive than regular video games. I felt like a murderous sociopath when I first played B&S, and the graphics aren't even that good! There's also people who want to use VR for productivity purposes, like having infinite screens, though I think for most people the comfort level isn't there yet. And lastly, porn. Of course there's VR porn.
- Macha 3y agoIt's kind of funny to see him pitch the Quest 3 as the open model to the AVP's closed model, as to my mind the Quest/Occulus was always the closed model to SteamVR's open model
- _fat_santa 3y agoThe Quest 3 and Vision Pro are entirely different products though, just look at the price points, the Quest starts at $499 while the Vision Pro starts at $3499. A person gets a Quest because they are into VR, a person gets the Vision Pro if they are rich and want the latest Apple Product.
- radiorental 3y agoIt just blows my mind Apple can get people to pay 3.5K to join their beta test program.
- _fat_santa 3y agoApple in a way is like Supreme, where the brand transcends the actual products. Folks stand in line to buy the latest Supreme merch even though it's just regular stuff with the Supreme brand written on it. In a way Apple has done the same with it's products where it's cool to buy it just because you like Apple as a brand and not necessarily because you need the underlying product. As a consumer I resent this sort of behavior but whenever I look at it through the lens of business, I always come away with the thought: "this is f** genius"
- the_third_wave 3y agoThis is the same drive which gets people to buy Louis Vuitton/Gucci/etc., the added value does not lie in the product itself but in the brand recognition. Those high product prices are part of the brand appeal for those who want to advertise affluence.
- nsxwolf 3y agoThe Apple Vision Pro integrates with iOS which is something the Quest will never be able to do. That's potentially worth the extra $3000 since there's no other way to do those things if you want to do those things.
- sauercrowd 3y ago> those things what things?
- londons_explore 3y agoputting iOS apps in a virtual world.
- chankstein38 3y agoAs long as Apple allows it.
- TulliusCicero 3y agoThe Quest is capable of running Android apps, since it's Android-based itself. Of course, there's the issue of actually getting them, since the Quest store is different from the usual Google Play store.
- nsxwolf 3y agoI can’t instantly mirror my MacBook’s display into mixed reality on the Quest 3.
- londons_explore 3y agoOn a macbook API's are far less locked down, so this is just a shortcoming of Metas software. However, on iOS, I bet the app store policies wouldn't allow it.
- jayd16 3y ago
- pcdoodle 3y agoIs meta also asking to share 30% of your revenue with them? It would be neat if VR was the actual product. I am suspicious of this pivot to "Open" from meta.
- piltdownman 3y agoNot only incredibly prescient and humble, but has a Starcraft 2 poster on his wall. What a hero.
- ChrisArchitect 3y ago[dupe] More discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39365919 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39365919
- DueDilligence 3y ago[dead]
- dougmwne 3y agoI think the facts are mostly on Meta’s side, even when you remove price. Meta is on somthing like 8th generation VR. Apple is a newcomer. The impressive Vision Pro tech just can’t stand up to 10 years of iterative product development. It’s not a iPhone moment at all, though I think Apple will end up being very competitive if they stick to it for a few years. Great for VR, great for Meta.
- IOT_Apprentice 3y agoAsk BlackBerry how that worked out. Apple is the newcomer, however as they design their own hardware & have the best companies to build cutting edge tech, they will continue to move forward. They needed to get a foot in the space and now they have. Time will ultimately tell.
- bitwize 3y agoThe original Apple Macintosh only had 128k of RAM, and was thus pretty much useless for all but the simplest of applications. It also cost as much as two Vision Pros, accounting for inflation. Yet it absolutely changed the world. The Quest is a great system for gaming and toy applications. But it's a glorified game console, much like the Mac's contemporaries upon release like the Commodore 64; it didn't kickstart a revolution in how we compute. The Vision Pro did, we just haven't felt the full effects yet.
- cubefox 3y agoThe Mac changed the world by influencing Windows, which became the big success rather than the Mac itself. Perhaps Meta copies some of those slick GUI ideas from VisionOS.
- baerrie 3y agoThe fact that he is using someone basically as a tripod to film this and casually drops neural link as an input source is testament to how much he knows about what it means to be an average user