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I've never used Matrix, directly. However I use Beeper all day every day, via their iOS, Android, and macOS clients. Beeper (not the iMessage app, but their pr

I've never used Matrix, directly. However I use Beeper all day every day, via their iOS, Android, and macOS clients. Beeper (not the iMessage app, but their previous and continuing multi-network app) is pretty great. I get one consistent UX across all chat networks I use. Sometimes the networks drop out, but rarely due to Beeper issues. Beeper is essentially a Matrix homeserver, plus a bunch of hosted Matrix bridges, and as far as I can tell, that whole part of Beeper was a great technical decision. The Beeper clients started off as forks of the Element clients, and honestly they were a trashfire at the beginning, but Beeper have been quickly iterating and replacing parts, and they're now pretty solid. They're not yet WhatsApp quality UX, but they're approaching it. I don't think the problem is Matrix.

LorenDB 3y ago
This. I use Matrix daily using nheko for my client. It's a rock solid experience (except for a bit of trouble with voice calling one of my friends). I've never been randomly told I have to reverify. If you are being asked to relogin and reverify every time you restart your client, you're doing something wrong.
raziel2p 3y ago
Depends on how you define "Matrix", I guess. The technology is undoubtedly great, but it also needs to sell itself as a (standalone) product if it wants to catch on.
- danpalmer 3y ago
  But Matrix isn't a product. There are companies building products on it, such as Element and Beeper, and as far as I can see the latter are doing a perfectly good job of selling themselves.
  - raziel2p 3y ago
    That may be technically correct, but reality is if Matrix wants to catch on (large scale) as a concept, it needs to act as a product in some way. Even if that just means having a good landing page guiding users on how to sign up on a server, install a client, and connect the two - and making sure that this always works.
    - danpalmer 3y ago
      I think that's one approach, but many other federated systems don't do this. ActivityPub does not do this really, instead Mastodon, a product using ActivityPub, markets itself. Arguably you could look at HTTP and say that HTTP doesn't have a fancy landing page pitching itself to users, browsers have landing pages pitching their experiences to users. Matrix could have a fancy landing page pitching itself to implementers who implement homeservers, bridges, or clients, and they could market to end users.
      - dale_glass 3y ago
        Maybe "Matrix" is not the ideal name for it then. ActivityPub, HTTP, XMPP, etc sound like technical things. If you land on a page talking about the "XMPP specification" then you quickly get the idea that it's not where you want to be as an end user. "Matrix" does sound a lot like the name of an end-user relevant product of some sort, and a client sending users to matrix.org compounds the issue. There's a reason why big companies have brand guidelines. They have people on staff that understand that people are confused quite easily and don't want to figure out where "Matrix", "Element" and "Element X" stand in relation to each other.
        danpalmer 3y ago
        I wouldn't read anything into a name. For a start that's very language specific, but also there are plenty of non-user facing technologies with non-technical sounding names, and vice-versa. The client I use doesn't send users to matrix.org, and I would assume that's by choice. Why do users need to know? Matrix.org is clearly a hub for the spec, documentation, GitHub links, developer community.
        cvwright 3y ago
        Yeah it’s unfortunate that they picked the “cool” name for the protocol, not the product. I keep saying that they should make a Matrix branded client that lets you easily donate to the foundation (like Signal does) and creates accounts only on matrix.org. Unfortunately that doesn’t really work with the ethos of the project.
avtar 3y ago
Curious to try Beeper now. If anyone has a referral code, please reach out. Email address is in my profile.

LorenDB 3y ago

This. I use Matrix daily using nheko for my client. It's a rock solid experience (except for a bit of trouble with voice calling one of my friends). I've never been randomly told I have to reverify. If you are being asked to relogin and reverify every time you restart your client, you're doing something wrong.

raziel2p 3y ago

Depends on how you define "Matrix", I guess. The technology is undoubtedly great, but it also needs to sell itself as a (standalone) product if it wants to catch on.

danpalmer 3y ago
But Matrix isn't a product. There are companies building products on it, such as Element and Beeper, and as far as I can see the latter are doing a perfectly good job of selling themselves.
- raziel2p 3y ago
  That may be technically correct, but reality is if Matrix wants to catch on (large scale) as a concept, it needs to act as a product in some way. Even if that just means having a good landing page guiding users on how to sign up on a server, install a client, and connect the two - and making sure that this always works.
  - danpalmer 3y ago
    I think that's one approach, but many other federated systems don't do this. ActivityPub does not do this really, instead Mastodon, a product using ActivityPub, markets itself. Arguably you could look at HTTP and say that HTTP doesn't have a fancy landing page pitching itself to users, browsers have landing pages pitching their experiences to users. Matrix could have a fancy landing page pitching itself to implementers who implement homeservers, bridges, or clients, and they could market to end users.
    - dale_glass 3y ago
      Maybe "Matrix" is not the ideal name for it then. ActivityPub, HTTP, XMPP, etc sound like technical things. If you land on a page talking about the "XMPP specification" then you quickly get the idea that it's not where you want to be as an end user. "Matrix" does sound a lot like the name of an end-user relevant product of some sort, and a client sending users to matrix.org compounds the issue. There's a reason why big companies have brand guidelines. They have people on staff that understand that people are confused quite easily and don't want to figure out where "Matrix", "Element" and "Element X" stand in relation to each other.
      - danpalmer 3y ago
        I wouldn't read anything into a name. For a start that's very language specific, but also there are plenty of non-user facing technologies with non-technical sounding names, and vice-versa. The client I use doesn't send users to matrix.org, and I would assume that's by choice. Why do users need to know? Matrix.org is clearly a hub for the spec, documentation, GitHub links, developer community.
      - cvwright 3y ago
        Yeah it’s unfortunate that they picked the “cool” name for the protocol, not the product. I keep saying that they should make a Matrix branded client that lets you easily donate to the foundation (like Signal does) and creates accounts only on matrix.org. Unfortunately that doesn’t really work with the ethos of the project.

avtar 3y ago

Curious to try Beeper now. If anyone has a referral code, please reach out. Email address is in my profile.