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In fairness, almost no one uses iMessage in the EU. That’s why I have WhatsApp and Signal, even though most people in the EU I know have an iPhone. iMessage is

In fairness, almost no one uses iMessage in the EU. That’s why I have WhatsApp and Signal, even though most people in the EU I know have an iPhone. iMessage is pervasive in the US though. That said, iMessage is really, really good and has features none of the other apps have due to tight integration with the iOS internals.

int_19h 3y ago
Is Signal really that popular? BTW, what about Telegram? It seems like it's pretty common in Eastern Europe.
- TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
  It really does not matter which one. You can install them next to each other and just use them all at once. With iMessage fallback is on SMS, so people would be paying for each message sent. And that's the reason why it never catch on.
  - gorbypark 3y ago
    I think this is really why it never caught on here (having fallback to SMS by default). I have an unlimited voice and data plan here in Spain, and don't get any SMS included at all. There's not even an option with my provider to have any included. 0.1 euros per SMS, it's kinda crazy. I maybe send 5 or 10 per year, usually some kind of response to an automated 2fa system or etc. If iMessage ever took off I'd always have to be aware of the green/blue bubble thing and make sure to never send a message using SMS. WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal/etc is just easier since you don't have to think about it.
- jandrewrogers 3y ago
  Signal is common in Western governments, particularly the more sensitive and diligent parts. If you work with government people, and I do, that tends to be the messaging app of choice and sometimes policy. WhatsApp also tends to be commonly used in Europe for official government things despite being forbidden for such purposes, but that isn’t seriously enforced. If you wanted an intelligence backdoor into the entire European political apparatus, WhatsApp is the way to do it. Colloquially and by inference, Signal seems to be considered the most secure common messaging app in governments, though this doesn’t mean it is actually true. I’ve used a lot of messaging apps around the world but never had a need to install Telegram. I know it is used in Eastern Europe but I never had a need to install it even when I was there. I’m just a user but my messaging footprint is more global than most.
guappa 3y ago
isn't iMessage the common source of exploiting noclick attacks on apple? Check for vulnerability reports in the last year and it seems the best way to pwn an iphone.
- jandrewrogers 3y ago
  For sure, content sent over iMessage has been used for remote exploitation repeatedly historically, though the attack surface becomes smaller every year. Android’s attack surface is at least as large, but the ecosystem is so fragmented that it is more difficult to attack. Content codecs are an issue everywhere. Aspects of iOS “lockdown mode” severely reduce this attack surface, at the cost of reducing the kinds of random media that can be trivially consumed. I’m not an expert. My impressions from people that are in a position to know is that a modern and properly locked down iOS device is extremely difficult and/or expensive to penetrate. Most people are pretty careless about security regardless. Many orgs that are willing to spend money for security do end up with iOS devices. It is hard to say what that means. I’ve never heard anyone say that Android is more secure than iOS, and the Android versions used in security sensitive contexts are quite unlike anything that would be tolerated on a normal person’s phone.
  - guappa 3y ago
    I'm specifically talking about attacks that happen with no user interaction, just receiving a message gives root access on the phone. They have happened at least 4 different times in 2023, and all were similar in that imessage wasn't (and i guess still isn't) properly sandboxed. So while the actual bug got fixed, the issue of imessage not being sandboxed didn't get fixed. This has nothing to do with how careless or careful one might be, since there is no user interaction required.
danielscrubs 3y ago
Every time someone says “in EU” they are wrong (including me). 23% use WhatsApp in Denmark over 70% in Spain.

int_19h 3y ago

Is Signal really that popular? BTW, what about Telegram? It seems like it's pretty common in Eastern Europe.

TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
It really does not matter which one. You can install them next to each other and just use them all at once. With iMessage fallback is on SMS, so people would be paying for each message sent. And that's the reason why it never catch on.
- gorbypark 3y ago
  I think this is really why it never caught on here (having fallback to SMS by default). I have an unlimited voice and data plan here in Spain, and don't get any SMS included at all. There's not even an option with my provider to have any included. 0.1 euros per SMS, it's kinda crazy. I maybe send 5 or 10 per year, usually some kind of response to an automated 2fa system or etc. If iMessage ever took off I'd always have to be aware of the green/blue bubble thing and make sure to never send a message using SMS. WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal/etc is just easier since you don't have to think about it.
jandrewrogers 3y ago
Signal is common in Western governments, particularly the more sensitive and diligent parts. If you work with government people, and I do, that tends to be the messaging app of choice and sometimes policy. WhatsApp also tends to be commonly used in Europe for official government things despite being forbidden for such purposes, but that isn’t seriously enforced. If you wanted an intelligence backdoor into the entire European political apparatus, WhatsApp is the way to do it. Colloquially and by inference, Signal seems to be considered the most secure common messaging app in governments, though this doesn’t mean it is actually true. I’ve used a lot of messaging apps around the world but never had a need to install Telegram. I know it is used in Eastern Europe but I never had a need to install it even when I was there. I’m just a user but my messaging footprint is more global than most.

guappa 3y ago

isn't iMessage the common source of exploiting noclick attacks on apple? Check for vulnerability reports in the last year and it seems the best way to pwn an iphone.

jandrewrogers 3y ago
For sure, content sent over iMessage has been used for remote exploitation repeatedly historically, though the attack surface becomes smaller every year. Android’s attack surface is at least as large, but the ecosystem is so fragmented that it is more difficult to attack. Content codecs are an issue everywhere. Aspects of iOS “lockdown mode” severely reduce this attack surface, at the cost of reducing the kinds of random media that can be trivially consumed. I’m not an expert. My impressions from people that are in a position to know is that a modern and properly locked down iOS device is extremely difficult and/or expensive to penetrate. Most people are pretty careless about security regardless. Many orgs that are willing to spend money for security do end up with iOS devices. It is hard to say what that means. I’ve never heard anyone say that Android is more secure than iOS, and the Android versions used in security sensitive contexts are quite unlike anything that would be tolerated on a normal person’s phone.
- guappa 3y ago
  I'm specifically talking about attacks that happen with no user interaction, just receiving a message gives root access on the phone. They have happened at least 4 different times in 2023, and all were similar in that imessage wasn't (and i guess still isn't) properly sandboxed. So while the actual bug got fixed, the issue of imessage not being sandboxed didn't get fixed. This has nothing to do with how careless or careful one might be, since there is no user interaction required.

danielscrubs 3y ago

Every time someone says “in EU” they are wrong (including me). 23% use WhatsApp in Denmark over 70% in Spain.