6 ms·

Apple, Microsoft win exemptions for iMessage, Bing from EU rules

26 points by taubek 3y ago

thriftwy 3y ago
The peasant class will still have to comply, though.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  The peasant class of messaging platform owners? What?
- sakjur 3y ago
  Current list of gatekeepers is FAAMG and TikTok[2], and to be considered for it requires three years worth of a large market share[1]. Not even Discord or Slack seem to make the cut at the moment, so I wouldn’t be too worried about the “peasant class” being forced to comply with the DMA. [1] https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-2019-2024/europe-fit-digital-age/digital-markets-act-ensuring-fair-and-open-digital-markets_en https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-... [2] https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/gatekeepers_en https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/gatekeepers_en
- arielcostas 3y ago
  Oh those poor peasants at Google, Meta, Microsoft and TikTok, being forced by the big, evil EU to open up their platforms to prevent market abuse...
jackjeff 3y ago
Nobody uses iMessage over here. WhatsApp dominates. It’s always amusing to hear Americans complain about the lock-in of blue bubbles.
- kasperni 3y ago
  > Nobody uses iMessage over here. WhatsApp dominates. Not true, this really depends on the country.
  - dimask 3y ago
    It depends whether whatsapp or viber or messenger dominates, but not whether iMessage is widely used or not.
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      Yeah the only country where iMessage is slightly big is the UK and they obviously aren't part of the EU anymore
      - kasperni 3y ago
        I'n Denmark almost 70% of the population uses iOS. So iMessage is definitely the dominating platform here.
        TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
        I used to have an iPhone and never opened iMessage. I was thinking that it is different name for SMS. So 70% iOS penetration doesn't mean 70% iMessage use.
        ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago
        You are the exception in this case.
  - guappa 3y ago
    It's whatsapp or telegram, i've heard of viber.
    - gorbypark 3y ago
      Viber was pretty popular here (Spain) before WhatsApp supported voice calling. People used them side by side, Viber for voice, WhatsApp for text. Now WhatsApp dominates everything, with Telegram coming in a very distant second. Telegram seems popular for groups because I believe it doesn't show everyone your phone number. A lot of Teachers seem to setup Telegram groups for their students so their student's don't see their phone number.
- notso411 3y ago
  [dead]
zuminator 3y ago
How is LinkedIn a gatekeeper service??
- petre 3y ago
  Social network with ~1B users. One could probably publish propaganda on it.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  It's pretty much unavoidable if you want to get a job and there's no credible competitor. Makes total sense IMO
gnabgib 3y ago
Also "Apple won't be forced to open up iMessage by EU"[0] (12 points, 18 hours ago, 3 comments), "Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation"[1] (104 points, 16 hours ago, 170 comments) [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39356980 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39356980 [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39357948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39357948
jandrewrogers 3y ago
In fairness, almost no one uses iMessage in the EU. That’s why I have WhatsApp and Signal, even though most people in the EU I know have an iPhone. iMessage is pervasive in the US though. That said, iMessage is really, really good and has features none of the other apps have due to tight integration with the iOS internals.
- int_19h 3y ago
  Is Signal really that popular? BTW, what about Telegram? It seems like it's pretty common in Eastern Europe.
  - TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
    It really does not matter which one. You can install them next to each other and just use them all at once. With iMessage fallback is on SMS, so people would be paying for each message sent. And that's the reason why it never catch on.
    - gorbypark 3y ago
      I think this is really why it never caught on here (having fallback to SMS by default). I have an unlimited voice and data plan here in Spain, and don't get any SMS included at all. There's not even an option with my provider to have any included. 0.1 euros per SMS, it's kinda crazy. I maybe send 5 or 10 per year, usually some kind of response to an automated 2fa system or etc. If iMessage ever took off I'd always have to be aware of the green/blue bubble thing and make sure to never send a message using SMS. WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal/etc is just easier since you don't have to think about it.
  - jandrewrogers 3y ago
    Signal is common in Western governments, particularly the more sensitive and diligent parts. If you work with government people, and I do, that tends to be the messaging app of choice and sometimes policy. WhatsApp also tends to be commonly used in Europe for official government things despite being forbidden for such purposes, but that isn’t seriously enforced. If you wanted an intelligence backdoor into the entire European political apparatus, WhatsApp is the way to do it. Colloquially and by inference, Signal seems to be considered the most secure common messaging app in governments, though this doesn’t mean it is actually true. I’ve used a lot of messaging apps around the world but never had a need to install Telegram. I know it is used in Eastern Europe but I never had a need to install it even when I was there. I’m just a user but my messaging footprint is more global than most.
difosfor 3y ago
Nobody uses iMessage _because_ it was crap and is still locked in. If it would just connect to other messaging networks I would probably switch to it as it could provide better standard integrations with other apps. Unfortunately products aren't optimized for users but for profit and regulation here is dropping the ball again.
from-nibly 3y ago
I keep seeing people comment that "message isn't popular here". Anti trust laws shouldn't be about how popular something is. That's like not ticketing someone for speeding because they are driving a minivan. If anti trust behavior is anything other than bullying companies you think are too powerful there needs to be criteria for the specific behavior that is independent of it's current effectiveness.
- EPWN3D 3y ago
  So even when the market in the EU has spoken and rejected the product that is iMessage, we should consider it a market failure that demands anti-trust intervention because Apple is a "bully"? Under what circumstances do you believe anti-trust regulation isn't warranted?
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
[dupe] More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39357948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39357948

26 points by taubek 3y ago

thriftwy 3y ago

The peasant class will still have to comply, though.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
The peasant class of messaging platform owners? What?
sakjur 3y ago
Current list of gatekeepers is FAAMG and TikTok[2], and to be considered for it requires three years worth of a large market share[1]. Not even Discord or Slack seem to make the cut at the moment, so I wouldn’t be too worried about the “peasant class” being forced to comply with the DMA. [1] https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-2019-2024/europe-fit-digital-age/digital-markets-act-ensuring-fair-and-open-digital-markets_en https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-... [2] https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/gatekeepers_en https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/gatekeepers_en
arielcostas 3y ago
Oh those poor peasants at Google, Meta, Microsoft and TikTok, being forced by the big, evil EU to open up their platforms to prevent market abuse...

jackjeff 3y ago

Nobody uses iMessage over here. WhatsApp dominates. It’s always amusing to hear Americans complain about the lock-in of blue bubbles.

kasperni 3y ago
> Nobody uses iMessage over here. WhatsApp dominates. Not true, this really depends on the country.
- dimask 3y ago
  It depends whether whatsapp or viber or messenger dominates, but not whether iMessage is widely used or not.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    Yeah the only country where iMessage is slightly big is the UK and they obviously aren't part of the EU anymore
    - kasperni 3y ago
      I'n Denmark almost 70% of the population uses iOS. So iMessage is definitely the dominating platform here.
      - TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
        I used to have an iPhone and never opened iMessage. I was thinking that it is different name for SMS. So 70% iOS penetration doesn't mean 70% iMessage use.
        ThePowerOfFuet 3y ago
        You are the exception in this case.
- guappa 3y ago
  It's whatsapp or telegram, i've heard of viber.
  - gorbypark 3y ago
    Viber was pretty popular here (Spain) before WhatsApp supported voice calling. People used them side by side, Viber for voice, WhatsApp for text. Now WhatsApp dominates everything, with Telegram coming in a very distant second. Telegram seems popular for groups because I believe it doesn't show everyone your phone number. A lot of Teachers seem to setup Telegram groups for their students so their student's don't see their phone number.
notso411 3y ago
[dead]

zuminator 3y ago

How is LinkedIn a gatekeeper service??

petre 3y ago
Social network with ~1B users. One could probably publish propaganda on it.
wkat4242 3y ago
It's pretty much unavoidable if you want to get a job and there's no credible competitor. Makes total sense IMO

gnabgib 3y ago

Also "Apple won't be forced to open up iMessage by EU"[0] (12 points, 18 hours ago, 3 comments), "Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation"[1] (104 points, 16 hours ago, 170 comments) [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39356980 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39356980 [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39357948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39357948

jandrewrogers 3y ago

In fairness, almost no one uses iMessage in the EU. That’s why I have WhatsApp and Signal, even though most people in the EU I know have an iPhone. iMessage is pervasive in the US though. That said, iMessage is really, really good and has features none of the other apps have due to tight integration with the iOS internals.

int_19h 3y ago
Is Signal really that popular? BTW, what about Telegram? It seems like it's pretty common in Eastern Europe.
- TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
  It really does not matter which one. You can install them next to each other and just use them all at once. With iMessage fallback is on SMS, so people would be paying for each message sent. And that's the reason why it never catch on.
  - gorbypark 3y ago
    I think this is really why it never caught on here (having fallback to SMS by default). I have an unlimited voice and data plan here in Spain, and don't get any SMS included at all. There's not even an option with my provider to have any included. 0.1 euros per SMS, it's kinda crazy. I maybe send 5 or 10 per year, usually some kind of response to an automated 2fa system or etc. If iMessage ever took off I'd always have to be aware of the green/blue bubble thing and make sure to never send a message using SMS. WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal/etc is just easier since you don't have to think about it.
- jandrewrogers 3y ago
  Signal is common in Western governments, particularly the more sensitive and diligent parts. If you work with government people, and I do, that tends to be the messaging app of choice and sometimes policy. WhatsApp also tends to be commonly used in Europe for official government things despite being forbidden for such purposes, but that isn’t seriously enforced. If you wanted an intelligence backdoor into the entire European political apparatus, WhatsApp is the way to do it. Colloquially and by inference, Signal seems to be considered the most secure common messaging app in governments, though this doesn’t mean it is actually true. I’ve used a lot of messaging apps around the world but never had a need to install Telegram. I know it is used in Eastern Europe but I never had a need to install it even when I was there. I’m just a user but my messaging footprint is more global than most.

difosfor 3y ago

Nobody uses iMessage _because_ it was crap and is still locked in. If it would just connect to other messaging networks I would probably switch to it as it could provide better standard integrations with other apps. Unfortunately products aren't optimized for users but for profit and regulation here is dropping the ball again.

from-nibly 3y ago

I keep seeing people comment that "message isn't popular here". Anti trust laws shouldn't be about how popular something is. That's like not ticketing someone for speeding because they are driving a minivan. If anti trust behavior is anything other than bullying companies you think are too powerful there needs to be criteria for the specific behavior that is independent of it's current effectiveness.

EPWN3D 3y ago
So even when the market in the EU has spoken and rejected the product that is iMessage, we should consider it a market failure that demands anti-trust intervention because Apple is a "bully"? Under what circumstances do you believe anti-trust regulation isn't warranted?

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

[dupe] More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39357948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39357948