5 ms·

The Backpage Defendants Never Stood a Chance

23 points by aragonite 3y ago

oohffyvfg 3y ago
[flagged]
- heroprotagonist 3y ago
  I was going to regurgitate a statistic I found once about the US having the highest per-capita incarceration rate in the world. Despite being the land of the free. It's been that way most of my life. But I just checked again and we've slipped to number 6!! Based on casual quick research, it looks like the United States slipped out of the top spot for per-capita incarceration sometime between 2008, when it peaked, and May 2023, when it was ranked the sixth highest rate in the world. The data suggests the decline accelerated between 2019-2020. (thanks Kagi LLM quick answer!) Maybe because we've increasingly stopped--err, slowed-- ruining people's lives over plants in more places over the last decade..
dsign 3y ago
Other than child prostitution, is there ever a reason to fight sex work instead of investing in social programs or just giving some basic income to vulnerable people?
- dzhiurgis 3y ago
  > just giving some basic income to vulnerable people? Why single out prostitution here?
  - dsign 3y ago
    Would you care to elaborate?
  - hn_acker 3y ago
    dsign was staying on topic by suggesting their solution in the context of prostitution, but the dsign worded the solution in a way that could apply to people other than just sex workers.
- tetromino_ 3y ago
  Social programs and basic income target residents; prostitutes are famously migratory. A prostitute currently working in California often starts out as a vulnerable girl in Missouri or Colombia or Korea or anywhere else other than California, and thus out of scope for any social program that California's voters could possibly be expected to fund.
- kelipso 3y ago
  It incentivizes sex trafficking. There is already plenty of evidence of increased human trafficking in areas where prostitution is legalized. These prostitutes start out as kids who the traffickers see as sources of revenue due to the existence of prostitution.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - tsycho 3y ago
    But why would legalization of prostitution increase sex trafficking, which is already a crime? With legalization, sex workers have more rights and a higher ability to go independent, or to go to the police when they suffer abuse. I suspect that the amount of sex trafficking is actually determined by the amount of nearby vulnerable men/women with low economic prospects. It's a red herring to look at any correlation with legalization and consider that as causation.
    - kelipso 3y ago
      Legalization increases demand for prostitutes, which incentivizes sex trafficking, and consequently increases sex trafficking. It's a very straightforward line of consequences compared to what you are trying to say.
      - hn_acker 3y ago
        1. Is it really so straightforward? And if so, do the chosen means fulfill the purpose of reducing sex trafficking without causing a comparable amount of harm to prostitutes? Did the DOJ's raid and shutdown of Backpage reduce sex trafficking to a degree that outweighed the harm to sex workers and to hosters of sites similar to Backpage? 2. Legalization of online pornography increases demand for porn, which incentivizes sex trafficking, and consequently increases sex trafficking. 3. As long as prostitution is criminalized, prostitutes can't seek police intervention when when police sexually assault prostitutes [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_abuse_of_sex_workers_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_abuse_of_sex_workers_in...
- maerF0x0 3y ago
  Musing for a moment. What if they legalized and taxed it to fund social programs? Would the supply of sex workers decline enough to move the price to the point that a lot of market participants (Johns) would meaningful reduce their demand? (If so that sounds like a ton of harm reduction IMO)

23 points by aragonite 3y ago

oohffyvfg 3y ago

[flagged]

heroprotagonist 3y ago
I was going to regurgitate a statistic I found once about the US having the highest per-capita incarceration rate in the world. Despite being the land of the free. It's been that way most of my life. But I just checked again and we've slipped to number 6!! Based on casual quick research, it looks like the United States slipped out of the top spot for per-capita incarceration sometime between 2008, when it peaked, and May 2023, when it was ranked the sixth highest rate in the world. The data suggests the decline accelerated between 2019-2020. (thanks Kagi LLM quick answer!) Maybe because we've increasingly stopped--err, slowed-- ruining people's lives over plants in more places over the last decade..

dsign 3y ago

Other than child prostitution, is there ever a reason to fight sex work instead of investing in social programs or just giving some basic income to vulnerable people?

dzhiurgis 3y ago
> just giving some basic income to vulnerable people? Why single out prostitution here?
- dsign 3y ago
  Would you care to elaborate?
- hn_acker 3y ago
  dsign was staying on topic by suggesting their solution in the context of prostitution, but the dsign worded the solution in a way that could apply to people other than just sex workers.
tetromino_ 3y ago
Social programs and basic income target residents; prostitutes are famously migratory. A prostitute currently working in California often starts out as a vulnerable girl in Missouri or Colombia or Korea or anywhere else other than California, and thus out of scope for any social program that California's voters could possibly be expected to fund.
kelipso 3y ago
It incentivizes sex trafficking. There is already plenty of evidence of increased human trafficking in areas where prostitution is legalized. These prostitutes start out as kids who the traffickers see as sources of revenue due to the existence of prostitution.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- tsycho 3y ago
  But why would legalization of prostitution increase sex trafficking, which is already a crime? With legalization, sex workers have more rights and a higher ability to go independent, or to go to the police when they suffer abuse. I suspect that the amount of sex trafficking is actually determined by the amount of nearby vulnerable men/women with low economic prospects. It's a red herring to look at any correlation with legalization and consider that as causation.
  - kelipso 3y ago
    Legalization increases demand for prostitutes, which incentivizes sex trafficking, and consequently increases sex trafficking. It's a very straightforward line of consequences compared to what you are trying to say.
    - hn_acker 3y ago
      1. Is it really so straightforward? And if so, do the chosen means fulfill the purpose of reducing sex trafficking without causing a comparable amount of harm to prostitutes? Did the DOJ's raid and shutdown of Backpage reduce sex trafficking to a degree that outweighed the harm to sex workers and to hosters of sites similar to Backpage? 2. Legalization of online pornography increases demand for porn, which incentivizes sex trafficking, and consequently increases sex trafficking. 3. As long as prostitution is criminalized, prostitutes can't seek police intervention when when police sexually assault prostitutes [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_abuse_of_sex_workers_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_abuse_of_sex_workers_in...
maerF0x0 3y ago
Musing for a moment. What if they legalized and taxed it to fund social programs? Would the supply of sex workers decline enough to move the price to the point that a lot of market participants (Johns) would meaningful reduce their demand? (If so that sounds like a ton of harm reduction IMO)