4 ms·

Desktop linux market share is below 2% yet people aren't talking about it being on its last legs like with Firefox. How does Firefox's 3.5% market share prevent

by xuhu 3y ago

Desktop linux market share is below 2% yet people aren't talking about it being on its last legs like with Firefox. How does Firefox's 3.5% market share prevent people from using it ? Is the 180,000,000 number of monthly active users simply too low ?

pwb25 3y ago
wow you are right, they have 3,5%. I thought they had like 25-30%. Safari had 18% apparently, I know 0 people who use Safari
- aleph_minus_one 3y ago
  > wow you are right, they have 3,5% It depends a lot on the country. In Germany, Firefox' market share is larger since Firefox is viewed as the browser that takes the users' privacy concerns (e.g. tracking, DRM (there still exists Firefox EME-free), ..) most seriously. According to > https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/germany https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/germ... Firefox' market share is about 18.6 % among the desktop users in Germany, i.e. among the desktop browsers, Firefox has the 2nd largest market share in Germany (for all platforms: according to > https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/all/germany https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/all/germany in Germany, Firefox' market share is currently about 10.4 %).
  - pwb25 3y ago
    That explains things, I in fact work as a programmer in germany :) They even have ads on the subway here
- alemanek 3y ago
  You don’t know anyone who uses an iPhone to browse the web? Pretty sure that is where that Safari market share comes from.
  - aleph_minus_one 3y ago
    > You don’t know anyone who uses an iPhone to browse the web? What you write as a joke is in my opinion not one: when I consider the department hallway in the office where I work at (not tech sector), you will, I think, only find 2 iPhone owners among about 25 people. One of these iPhone owners is the boss, and the other one is a programmer who vocal about not liking Android. So, depending on your surroundings, it is quite possible that seeing iPhones or iPhone owners is actually a somewhat rare event.
    - anomaly_ 3y ago
      You’re in an emerging market I’d guess. iPhones make up 90%+ of the high value mobile user market.
      - JohnFen 3y ago
        I'm not in an emerging market. I'm in the US. Of all the people I know, only 3 use iPhones. I rarely see them in the wild, either. My understanding is that iPhone usage varies wildly between regions of the US. I know that when I go to some areas, I see them everywhere and in other areas, almost never.
      - pwb25 3y ago
        I work in Germany and I don't know any friend with an iPhone. Of course they exist, but it's a general a disliked phone here for engineers
      - aleph_minus_one 3y ago
        > You’re in an emerging market I’d guess. You are wrong. Just today, a colleague boasted that he recently bought a new Samsung Android phone and paid about 1500 euro for it (I guess he bought a Samsung Galaxy S24); this is likely more expensive than an iPhone. But what I rather wanted to tell with my comment above is depending on your surroundings, it can be a very common situation that iPhone fans/users are a small minority.
  - pwb25 3y ago
- perilunar 3y ago
  iOS is about ~30% of the global mobile market and ~60% of the US market, and most iOS users use Safari as their browser. So you probably do know people who use Safari.
  - pwb25 3y ago
    yes, I thought it was on computers also since as you say all mobiles comes with a default browser so the stats are quite pointless because you could just count the amount of androids and iphones and other phones
- Tagbert 3y ago
  Isn’t that because it includes mobile which is heavily incumbent oriented. I think the FF share on desktop is higher.
m-p-3 3y ago
It's a bit more scary for the average user to install a completely different OS than it is to download a browser they can get rid of in a click or two if they don't like it. I can understand 2% for linux-based desktop OS, but 3.5% for a browser available on most major OS isn't great at all..
thayne 3y ago
But desktop linux market share has never been in the double digits. Firefox once had 30%. And the low marketshare does prevent people from using it. Because there are sites that only work if you use chrome and maybe safari, because Firefox marketshare isn't big enough to worry about. So users switch to chrome so those sites work, which decreases Firefox market share in a vicious cycle.
- xuhu 3y ago
  The chicken-and-egg is a valid argument. But it applies to Linux as well (no users -> no apps being ported -> no users).
  - DaSHacka 3y ago
    I don't understand the whataboutism. Linux does suffer from the issue of low market penetration, but it's always had a relatively low market share (and its actually getting better as of late). Whereas firefox has been on a steady decline for nearly a decade due to incompetent management with conflicting goals, something that's unlikely to change anytime soon.

by xuhu 3y ago

pwb25 3y ago

wow you are right, they have 3,5%. I thought they had like 25-30%. Safari had 18% apparently, I know 0 people who use Safari

aleph_minus_one 3y ago
> wow you are right, they have 3,5% It depends a lot on the country. In Germany, Firefox' market share is larger since Firefox is viewed as the browser that takes the users' privacy concerns (e.g. tracking, DRM (there still exists Firefox EME-free), ..) most seriously. According to > https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/germany https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/germ... Firefox' market share is about 18.6 % among the desktop users in Germany, i.e. among the desktop browsers, Firefox has the 2nd largest market share in Germany (for all platforms: according to > https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/all/germany https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/all/germany in Germany, Firefox' market share is currently about 10.4 %).
- pwb25 3y ago
  That explains things, I in fact work as a programmer in germany :) They even have ads on the subway here
alemanek 3y ago
You don’t know anyone who uses an iPhone to browse the web? Pretty sure that is where that Safari market share comes from.
- aleph_minus_one 3y ago
  > You don’t know anyone who uses an iPhone to browse the web? What you write as a joke is in my opinion not one: when I consider the department hallway in the office where I work at (not tech sector), you will, I think, only find 2 iPhone owners among about 25 people. One of these iPhone owners is the boss, and the other one is a programmer who vocal about not liking Android. So, depending on your surroundings, it is quite possible that seeing iPhones or iPhone owners is actually a somewhat rare event.
  - anomaly_ 3y ago
    You’re in an emerging market I’d guess. iPhones make up 90%+ of the high value mobile user market.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      I'm not in an emerging market. I'm in the US. Of all the people I know, only 3 use iPhones. I rarely see them in the wild, either. My understanding is that iPhone usage varies wildly between regions of the US. I know that when I go to some areas, I see them everywhere and in other areas, almost never.
    - pwb25 3y ago
      I work in Germany and I don't know any friend with an iPhone. Of course they exist, but it's a general a disliked phone here for engineers
    - aleph_minus_one 3y ago
      > You’re in an emerging market I’d guess. You are wrong. Just today, a colleague boasted that he recently bought a new Samsung Android phone and paid about 1500 euro for it (I guess he bought a Samsung Galaxy S24); this is likely more expensive than an iPhone. But what I rather wanted to tell with my comment above is depending on your surroundings, it can be a very common situation that iPhone fans/users are a small minority.
- pwb25 3y ago
perilunar 3y ago
iOS is about ~30% of the global mobile market and ~60% of the US market, and most iOS users use Safari as their browser. So you probably do know people who use Safari.
- pwb25 3y ago
  yes, I thought it was on computers also since as you say all mobiles comes with a default browser so the stats are quite pointless because you could just count the amount of androids and iphones and other phones
Tagbert 3y ago
Isn’t that because it includes mobile which is heavily incumbent oriented. I think the FF share on desktop is higher.

m-p-3 3y ago

It's a bit more scary for the average user to install a completely different OS than it is to download a browser they can get rid of in a click or two if they don't like it. I can understand 2% for linux-based desktop OS, but 3.5% for a browser available on most major OS isn't great at all..

thayne 3y ago

But desktop linux market share has never been in the double digits. Firefox once had 30%. And the low marketshare does prevent people from using it. Because there are sites that only work if you use chrome and maybe safari, because Firefox marketshare isn't big enough to worry about. So users switch to chrome so those sites work, which decreases Firefox market share in a vicious cycle.

xuhu 3y ago
The chicken-and-egg is a valid argument. But it applies to Linux as well (no users -> no apps being ported -> no users).
- DaSHacka 3y ago
  I don't understand the whataboutism. Linux does suffer from the issue of low market penetration, but it's always had a relatively low market share (and its actually getting better as of late). Whereas firefox has been on a steady decline for nearly a decade due to incompetent management with conflicting goals, something that's unlikely to change anytime soon.