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Full disclosure: participated in Tesla's IPO, own a Tesla. Tesla should be doing two things that would greatly reduce their liability while also keeping custom

Full disclosure: participated in Tesla's IPO, own a Tesla. Tesla should be doing two things that would greatly reduce their liability while also keeping customers happy. Overall I think it wouldn't change the number of people buying into FSD anyway so there wouldn't be much downside for them. 1. Offer refunds for those for paid for FSD. Full refund until FSD has been enabled for a year and used more than N times, prorated after that based on usage. That gives existing customers a window to try it out and get their money back if they don't like it, with a full refund if they only tried it out or a partial refund even if they used the feature a lot. 2. Be clearer in their marketing and on the purchase page about the feature. Sell your vision of it but also be honest about the current state of it. IMHO it isn't that hard of a sell to most customers but you'd be setting accurate expectations. Tech-aware people or those of us into EV tech are aware of FSD's limits but you are only going to disappoint people if they think FSD really is capable of full unattended self driving right now. That only hurts your brand and erodes trust. You can't hide the details in 6-point lawyerese and expect customers to be happy with you. I was aware of the limits of FSD when we bought the car and considered it an investment in the future... but I don't use it often and told my spouse not to either. It is a beta feature and must be used with care.

itishappy 3y ago
> Be clearer in their marketing and on the purchase page about the feature. Do you have any examples in mind of where this feature was billed confusingly? The product page and Model S purchase page both include clear disclaimers in both the first sentence or directly below the bulleted feature list. > Full Self Driving > Your vehicle will be able to drive itself almost anywhere with minimal driver intervention and will continuously improve. https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot https://www.tesla.com/models/design#overview https://www.tesla.com/models/design#overview
- sokoloff 3y ago
  Just the 140 characters you quoted contains a confusing billing, IMO. Is it "Full Self Driving" xor is "Minimal driver intervention" required?
  - itishappy 3y ago
    Maybe 2 lines down will clear things up? > The currently enabled Autopilot, Enhanced Autopilot and Full Self-Driving features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous.
    - sokoloff 3y ago
      If they also changed "Full" to "Limited" (or "Not Full"), it would be cleared up. "Full Self Driving" and "vehicle is not autonomous" is still confusing to English speakers, IMO.
      - itishappy 3y ago
        Sure, which is why they have dedicated entire sections to outlining it's exact capabilities, as well as software alerts and warnings you must accept before enabling the feature. > Before enabling Autopilot, the driver first needs to agree to “keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times” and to always “maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle.” Subsequently, every time the driver engages Autopilot, they are shown a visual reminder to “keep your hands on the wheel." If you bought this car without realizing how it worked... I sympathize, but the info was provided. If you enabled this feature without understanding how it worked... that's now on you.
        PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
        I'd say only in this industry but it's not true, it just means technical people are human. How does that saying go? You'll never convince someone of a fact that their income depends on not knowing? When someone writes code that is very difficult for anyone else to grok it's the code writers fault, but when someone has a misapprehension of a feature of a car, because it's on the tin SOMEWHERE, it's the fault of the customer who often times is unsophisticated in terms of vehicles and tech within vehicles.
      - rsynnott 3y ago
        “No”, surely? If it requires constant supervision, it isn’t any sort of self-anything.
- throwaway5959 3y ago
  Minimal driver intervention isn’t keeping your hands on the wheel at all time and paying attention.
  - itishappy 3y ago
    It is if it requires minimal intervention. Intervention and attention are not the same.
    - sokoloff 3y ago
      But surely "require active driver supervision" is the same as attention, right? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39360101 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39360101
      - itishappy 3y ago
        Yes, they claim to require full attention and minimal intervention.
- StackRanker3000 3y ago
  > Do you have any examples in mind of where this feature was billed confusingly? Yes, when they started calling it full self driving, which by any reasonable person’s definition it isn’t. That deception is not entirely ameliorated by using more correct language in other places.
- xenadu02 3y ago
  The headline in large type says "Full Self-Driving Capability" The normal-sized text says "Your car will be able to drive itself almost anywhere with minimal driver intervention and will continuously improve" Only once you get to the small font do you get "The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates." This is not a truly honest presentation of the feature. It starts by selling the end goal that may or may not be achieved at some undefined point in the future. Then in small print it says the current features don't actually make the car autonomous. Honest presentation might be something with a headline like "Self-Driving Beta" and in normal text say "Access to current and all future updates as we work toward full self driving. Currently self-driving can navigate most conditions under human supervision. By purchasing self-driving now you automatically get all future improvements as we continuously work toward fully autonomous driving". If it were up to me I'd also sell this as a perk for "investing" in the company: if you buy self-driving now transfer it to your next Tesla vehicle for free. That makes it a reward for paying $12k for a beta feature and more importantly eliminates any worries that actual full self driving won't arrive before you upgrade vehicles. It also encourages people to be repeat customers. edit: It appears I was out of date. Tesla now allows you to transfer lifetime supercharging and/or FSD to a new Tesla for free so that's a nice perk and one they should lead with and commit to long-term.

itishappy 3y ago

> Be clearer in their marketing and on the purchase page about the feature. Do you have any examples in mind of where this feature was billed confusingly? The product page and Model S purchase page both include clear disclaimers in both the first sentence or directly below the bulleted feature list. > Full Self Driving > Your vehicle will be able to drive itself almost anywhere with minimal driver intervention and will continuously improve. https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot https://www.tesla.com/models/design#overview https://www.tesla.com/models/design#overview

sokoloff 3y ago
Just the 140 characters you quoted contains a confusing billing, IMO. Is it "Full Self Driving" xor is "Minimal driver intervention" required?
- itishappy 3y ago
  Maybe 2 lines down will clear things up? > The currently enabled Autopilot, Enhanced Autopilot and Full Self-Driving features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    If they also changed "Full" to "Limited" (or "Not Full"), it would be cleared up. "Full Self Driving" and "vehicle is not autonomous" is still confusing to English speakers, IMO.
    - itishappy 3y ago
      Sure, which is why they have dedicated entire sections to outlining it's exact capabilities, as well as software alerts and warnings you must accept before enabling the feature. > Before enabling Autopilot, the driver first needs to agree to “keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times” and to always “maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle.” Subsequently, every time the driver engages Autopilot, they are shown a visual reminder to “keep your hands on the wheel." If you bought this car without realizing how it worked... I sympathize, but the info was provided. If you enabled this feature without understanding how it worked... that's now on you.
      - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
        I'd say only in this industry but it's not true, it just means technical people are human. How does that saying go? You'll never convince someone of a fact that their income depends on not knowing? When someone writes code that is very difficult for anyone else to grok it's the code writers fault, but when someone has a misapprehension of a feature of a car, because it's on the tin SOMEWHERE, it's the fault of the customer who often times is unsophisticated in terms of vehicles and tech within vehicles.
    - rsynnott 3y ago
      “No”, surely? If it requires constant supervision, it isn’t any sort of self-anything.
throwaway5959 3y ago
Minimal driver intervention isn’t keeping your hands on the wheel at all time and paying attention.
- itishappy 3y ago
  It is if it requires minimal intervention. Intervention and attention are not the same.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    But surely "require active driver supervision" is the same as attention, right? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39360101 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39360101
    - itishappy 3y ago
      Yes, they claim to require full attention and minimal intervention.
StackRanker3000 3y ago
> Do you have any examples in mind of where this feature was billed confusingly? Yes, when they started calling it full self driving, which by any reasonable person’s definition it isn’t. That deception is not entirely ameliorated by using more correct language in other places.
xenadu02 3y ago
The headline in large type says "Full Self-Driving Capability" The normal-sized text says "Your car will be able to drive itself almost anywhere with minimal driver intervention and will continuously improve" Only once you get to the small font do you get "The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates." This is not a truly honest presentation of the feature. It starts by selling the end goal that may or may not be achieved at some undefined point in the future. Then in small print it says the current features don't actually make the car autonomous. Honest presentation might be something with a headline like "Self-Driving Beta" and in normal text say "Access to current and all future updates as we work toward full self driving. Currently self-driving can navigate most conditions under human supervision. By purchasing self-driving now you automatically get all future improvements as we continuously work toward fully autonomous driving". If it were up to me I'd also sell this as a perk for "investing" in the company: if you buy self-driving now transfer it to your next Tesla vehicle for free. That makes it a reward for paying $12k for a beta feature and more importantly eliminates any worries that actual full self driving won't arrive before you upgrade vehicles. It also encourages people to be repeat customers. edit: It appears I was out of date. Tesla now allows you to transfer lifetime supercharging and/or FSD to a new Tesla for free so that's a nice perk and one they should lead with and commit to long-term.