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>iPhone costs as much as an equivalent Android Only flagships, But decent Androids can be had for much less than an iPhone. Like the Samsung A54 for example.

>iPhone costs as much as an equivalent Android Only flagships, But decent Androids can be had for much less than an iPhone. Like the Samsung A54 for example. Apple doesn't have ~300 Euro phones with OLED screens in its offer.

troupo 3y ago
Yes, but that doesn't make them "status phones for middle class people". The latest iPhone 15 can be had for 30 EUR/month even in Sweden (Sweden is very expensive) [1]. That's a single lunch for two. [1] https://www.tre.se/handla/mobiltelefoner/apple/iphone-15 https://www.tre.se/handla/mobiltelefoner/apple/iphone-15
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Sweden also has some of the highest salaries in Europe/the world, that's why they're not a status symbol, because even a pizza delivery boy can afford an iPhone 15 Pro Max. But they very much are a status symbol in less developed countries with lower wages: Eastern Europe, Latin America, etc. Lower and middle class people there will save for over a year just to get the latest iPhone, which is why there's a huge market there for clones.
  - troupo 3y ago
    The original claim was about "the EU" as a whole. Now it's "less developed countries with lowest wages". Even in Eastern Europe it's much less of a status symbol than let's say 10 years ago: installment plans are much more affordable to a larger part of the population. Source: am from Eastern Europe (though I live in Sweden now). > Lower and middle class people there will save for over a year just to get the latest iPhone Yup, because the poor unwashed masses don't have discounts, instalment plans or phones included with subscriptions. Oh wait, they do.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      Affordable doesn't mean financially sound. Going in debt to buy a phone you can't afford outright in cash, means you're too poor to afford it, that's why is a status symbol.
      - troupo 3y ago
        > Affordable doesn't mean financially sound. I can't keep up with goalposts moving speed in this conversation
acdha 3y ago
> Apple doesn't have ~300 Euro phones with OLED screens in its offer. Sure they do, the iPhone 12 is still widely available and it’s at least twice as fast as an A54. The prestige argument just hold up when you look at the data unless you scope it to say flagships. Google and Samsung charge just as much, and they have the same decreasingly small prestige that conveys. We’re 15 years into the touchscreen era so you’re just not impressing anyone.
- dns_snek 3y ago
  iPhone 12 costs almost twice as much as Samsung A54.
  - threeseed 3y ago
    At least here in Australia for RRP, iPhone 12 is 20% more expensive.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >Sure they do, the iPhone 12 is still widely available and it’s at least twice as fast as an A54. The iPhone 12 doesn't cost 300 Euros, it's 500 Euros and only comes with a dinky 64GB RAM base vs 128GB on the cheaper Samsung.
  - acdha 3y ago
    Okay, let’s assume the prices I got on Amazon were scammers. Here’s your “€300” A54 at €430: https://www.worten.pt/produtos/smartphone-samsung-galaxy-a54-5g-6-4-8-gb-128-gb-graphite-7731151 https://www.worten.pt/produtos/smartphone-samsung-galaxy-a54... Here’s the iPhone 12 at €550: https://www.worten.pt/produtos/iphone-12-apple-6-1-64-gb-preto-7256276 https://www.worten.pt/produtos/iphone-12-apple-6-1-64-gb-pre... Now, maybe that extra hundred euros is really critical to you but on the other hand the iPhone will have a service life years longer (it’s over twice as fast), but also neither of these is in a price range where you’re moving into prestige territory. This is like arguing Toyota vs. VW in an alternate universe where Mercedes and Bentley don’t exist. Phones are an impressively flat market in that regard: Tim Cook and Sundar Pichai have the same phones as millions of people who earn many orders of magnitude less than either of them.
GeekyBear 3y ago
> decent Androids can be had for much less than an iPhone The Android ecosystem didn't have a $399 Android device in 2016 that is still getting first party security updates today. The 2016 iPhone SE has worked out to ~$50 per supported year.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Non techie people who buy phones in the real world don't care about stuf they can't see or feel or don't understand, like long SW updates, since it's not like Androids stop working once you stop getting updates. They do care about stuff the can actually see, like having big bright high resolution OLLED display, not that dim low-res display on the SE pulled straight out of a 2008 parts bin. Especially that phones are now the main computing and content consumption platforms for most people. and if you put a 6.2 inch 1000 nits 1080p OLED vs 4.7 inch 720p 400 nits IPS, the difference will be as big as the grand canion and sway purchasing decisions way more than years of SW updates.
  - GeekyBear 3y ago
    > Non techie people who buy phones in the real world don't care about stuf they can't see or feel or don't understand Non techie folks care when their insecure phone allows something as important as their bank account to be hacked. The original Google Pixel also came out in 2016, and was completely dropped from support at the end of 2019.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >Non techie folks care when their insecure phone allows something as important as their bank account to be hacked. How many times are we gonna play this boogieman card? As if everyone gets their bank account instantly emptied by hackers the moment their Android is a day out of it's support window. How many times has that actually happened to users of older un-updated Androids in the real world, documented? I know about over half a dozen people with out of date Androids and they seem to still be solvent with their banks accounts intact. One of them is me. Hackers in the real world wanting to steal your savings are more likely to use phishing to get you to hand over your banking credentials voluntarily, rather than to build some elaborate malware targeting some unpatched flaw in your phone's OS to steal your banking credentials. Not that the latter isn't a risk, but it's being blown way out of proportion. >The original Google Pixel also came out in 2016, and was completely dropped from support at the end of 2019. We're talking here about buying modern phones today, not buying phones from the past. Google and Samsung did a 180 recently where they promise 7 years of updates to their lates phones. What argument are you gonna use 6 years from when those phones will still get updates?

troupo 3y ago

Yes, but that doesn't make them "status phones for middle class people". The latest iPhone 15 can be had for 30 EUR/month even in Sweden (Sweden is very expensive) [1]. That's a single lunch for two. [1] https://www.tre.se/handla/mobiltelefoner/apple/iphone-15 https://www.tre.se/handla/mobiltelefoner/apple/iphone-15

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Sweden also has some of the highest salaries in Europe/the world, that's why they're not a status symbol, because even a pizza delivery boy can afford an iPhone 15 Pro Max. But they very much are a status symbol in less developed countries with lower wages: Eastern Europe, Latin America, etc. Lower and middle class people there will save for over a year just to get the latest iPhone, which is why there's a huge market there for clones.
- troupo 3y ago
  The original claim was about "the EU" as a whole. Now it's "less developed countries with lowest wages". Even in Eastern Europe it's much less of a status symbol than let's say 10 years ago: installment plans are much more affordable to a larger part of the population. Source: am from Eastern Europe (though I live in Sweden now). > Lower and middle class people there will save for over a year just to get the latest iPhone Yup, because the poor unwashed masses don't have discounts, instalment plans or phones included with subscriptions. Oh wait, they do.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    Affordable doesn't mean financially sound. Going in debt to buy a phone you can't afford outright in cash, means you're too poor to afford it, that's why is a status symbol.
    - troupo 3y ago
      > Affordable doesn't mean financially sound. I can't keep up with goalposts moving speed in this conversation

acdha 3y ago

> Apple doesn't have ~300 Euro phones with OLED screens in its offer. Sure they do, the iPhone 12 is still widely available and it’s at least twice as fast as an A54. The prestige argument just hold up when you look at the data unless you scope it to say flagships. Google and Samsung charge just as much, and they have the same decreasingly small prestige that conveys. We’re 15 years into the touchscreen era so you’re just not impressing anyone.

dns_snek 3y ago
iPhone 12 costs almost twice as much as Samsung A54.
- threeseed 3y ago
  At least here in Australia for RRP, iPhone 12 is 20% more expensive.
FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>Sure they do, the iPhone 12 is still widely available and it’s at least twice as fast as an A54. The iPhone 12 doesn't cost 300 Euros, it's 500 Euros and only comes with a dinky 64GB RAM base vs 128GB on the cheaper Samsung.
- acdha 3y ago
  Okay, let’s assume the prices I got on Amazon were scammers. Here’s your “€300” A54 at €430: https://www.worten.pt/produtos/smartphone-samsung-galaxy-a54-5g-6-4-8-gb-128-gb-graphite-7731151 https://www.worten.pt/produtos/smartphone-samsung-galaxy-a54... Here’s the iPhone 12 at €550: https://www.worten.pt/produtos/iphone-12-apple-6-1-64-gb-preto-7256276 https://www.worten.pt/produtos/iphone-12-apple-6-1-64-gb-pre... Now, maybe that extra hundred euros is really critical to you but on the other hand the iPhone will have a service life years longer (it’s over twice as fast), but also neither of these is in a price range where you’re moving into prestige territory. This is like arguing Toyota vs. VW in an alternate universe where Mercedes and Bentley don’t exist. Phones are an impressively flat market in that regard: Tim Cook and Sundar Pichai have the same phones as millions of people who earn many orders of magnitude less than either of them.

GeekyBear 3y ago

> decent Androids can be had for much less than an iPhone The Android ecosystem didn't have a $399 Android device in 2016 that is still getting first party security updates today. The 2016 iPhone SE has worked out to ~$50 per supported year.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Non techie people who buy phones in the real world don't care about stuf they can't see or feel or don't understand, like long SW updates, since it's not like Androids stop working once you stop getting updates. They do care about stuff the can actually see, like having big bright high resolution OLLED display, not that dim low-res display on the SE pulled straight out of a 2008 parts bin. Especially that phones are now the main computing and content consumption platforms for most people. and if you put a 6.2 inch 1000 nits 1080p OLED vs 4.7 inch 720p 400 nits IPS, the difference will be as big as the grand canion and sway purchasing decisions way more than years of SW updates.
- GeekyBear 3y ago
  > Non techie people who buy phones in the real world don't care about stuf they can't see or feel or don't understand Non techie folks care when their insecure phone allows something as important as their bank account to be hacked. The original Google Pixel also came out in 2016, and was completely dropped from support at the end of 2019.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >Non techie folks care when their insecure phone allows something as important as their bank account to be hacked. How many times are we gonna play this boogieman card? As if everyone gets their bank account instantly emptied by hackers the moment their Android is a day out of it's support window. How many times has that actually happened to users of older un-updated Androids in the real world, documented? I know about over half a dozen people with out of date Androids and they seem to still be solvent with their banks accounts intact. One of them is me. Hackers in the real world wanting to steal your savings are more likely to use phishing to get you to hand over your banking credentials voluntarily, rather than to build some elaborate malware targeting some unpatched flaw in your phone's OS to steal your banking credentials. Not that the latter isn't a risk, but it's being blown way out of proportion. >The original Google Pixel also came out in 2016, and was completely dropped from support at the end of 2019. We're talking here about buying modern phones today, not buying phones from the past. Google and Samsung did a 180 recently where they promise 7 years of updates to their lates phones. What argument are you gonna use 6 years from when those phones will still get updates?