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Elon Musk: "FSD is already safer than humans, see our (misleading) safety report. If you use it and give us data, it will be a robotaxi by end of the year." Th

by ra7 3y ago

Elon Musk: "FSD is already safer than humans, see our (misleading) safety report. If you use it and give us data, it will be a robotaxi by end of the year." This dude: "Sounds good, let me put my baby in it. It's jerky, but I'm contributing for a bigger cause." This counts as being misled by marketing to me.

itishappy 3y ago
Elon: "FSD is safer than humans." This dude: "Neat, I'm going to use it!" FSD, upon activation: "Full Self-Driving (Beta). Full Self-Driving is in early limited access Beta and must be used with additional caution. It may do the wrong thing at the worst time. Do not become complacent. ... Use FSD in limited Beta only if you will pay constant attention to the road, and be prepared to act immediately, specially around blind corners, crossing intersection, and in narrow driving situations. Do you want to enable FSD while it is in limited Beta?" This dude: "Elon said it's safe, I'm going to drink and drive!"
- ra7 3y ago
  > Elon: "FSD is safer than humans." Well, this is false. So it's misleading right off the bat.
  - itishappy 3y ago
    Is it? I'd heard Tesla was being too tight lipped for any conclusions to be made at this point, but if you've got a study or source I'd love to see it!
    - ra7 3y ago
      Their safety report is a joke and their methodology is full of holes. There are a bunch of replies to this comment that explain why: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39359437 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39359437 As far as proving how unsafe it is, no one can do it unless Tesla is transparent with their data. Deliberately hiding that data doesn't automatically mean it's safer than humans, so yes, their claims are indeed highly misleading.
      - ajross 3y ago
        You were asked for any evidence that it's unsafe, and you don't have it. The linked article is the only fatal accident you can even point to, and even that one is (1) only a suspected FSD accident based on previous driver statements and (2) really obviously a DUI anyway. Look, these are the most popular vehicles on the road. Where are the wrecks? Where are the bodies? Surely if these were significant there would at least be a bunch of anecdata showing suspicious behavior. And there isn't. And you know that, which is why you're arguing so strongly here. Just chill out. The system is safe. It is not perfect, but it is safe. And no amount of whatifery will make it otherwise.
        ra7 3y ago
        No one can tell with a wreck if FSD was active or not. No shit, no one can point you to actual evidence because Tesla doesn’t release any data. You realize what a ridiculous, circular argument you’re making, right? It’s telling that you want to rely on anecdata and news reports as proof rather than asking Tesla to be forthcoming. To call a system safe and more specifically safer than human, you need data and you don’t have it. Plain and simple. The burden of proof is on you.
        ajross 3y ago
        Is the burden of proof really on me? I mean, I look around and don't see any accidents. Seems safe. That's good enough. And it's good enough for most people. You're the one shouting like crazy on the internet about how everyone is wrong and making explicit general statements that the system is clearly unsafe. And that doesn't match my experience. And when asked for evidence of your own you admit it doesn't exist. So... it's like that Money Printer Go Brrr... meme. Shouting loudly about something you believe deeply doesn't make it true. Cars aren't crashing. QED.
        ra7 3y ago
        Precisely what I expected from you. You’re exactly Tesla’s target audience. The irony and projection in your comment is comical. “It’s safer than humans.” “Proof?” “Just look around, bro. Trust me, it’s good enough. No data needed.” Thankfully, some of us don’t lack critical thinking.

by ra7 3y ago

itishappy 3y ago

Elon: "FSD is safer than humans." This dude: "Neat, I'm going to use it!" FSD, upon activation: "Full Self-Driving (Beta). Full Self-Driving is in early limited access Beta and must be used with additional caution. It may do the wrong thing at the worst time. Do not become complacent. ... Use FSD in limited Beta only if you will pay constant attention to the road, and be prepared to act immediately, specially around blind corners, crossing intersection, and in narrow driving situations. Do you want to enable FSD while it is in limited Beta?" This dude: "Elon said it's safe, I'm going to drink and drive!"

ra7 3y ago
> Elon: "FSD is safer than humans." Well, this is false. So it's misleading right off the bat.
- itishappy 3y ago
  Is it? I'd heard Tesla was being too tight lipped for any conclusions to be made at this point, but if you've got a study or source I'd love to see it!
  - ra7 3y ago
    Their safety report is a joke and their methodology is full of holes. There are a bunch of replies to this comment that explain why: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39359437 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39359437 As far as proving how unsafe it is, no one can do it unless Tesla is transparent with their data. Deliberately hiding that data doesn't automatically mean it's safer than humans, so yes, their claims are indeed highly misleading.
    - ajross 3y ago
      You were asked for any evidence that it's unsafe, and you don't have it. The linked article is the only fatal accident you can even point to, and even that one is (1) only a suspected FSD accident based on previous driver statements and (2) really obviously a DUI anyway. Look, these are the most popular vehicles on the road. Where are the wrecks? Where are the bodies? Surely if these were significant there would at least be a bunch of anecdata showing suspicious behavior. And there isn't. And you know that, which is why you're arguing so strongly here. Just chill out. The system is safe. It is not perfect, but it is safe. And no amount of whatifery will make it otherwise.
      - ra7 3y ago
        No one can tell with a wreck if FSD was active or not. No shit, no one can point you to actual evidence because Tesla doesn’t release any data. You realize what a ridiculous, circular argument you’re making, right? It’s telling that you want to rely on anecdata and news reports as proof rather than asking Tesla to be forthcoming. To call a system safe and more specifically safer than human, you need data and you don’t have it. Plain and simple. The burden of proof is on you.
        ajross 3y ago
        Is the burden of proof really on me? I mean, I look around and don't see any accidents. Seems safe. That's good enough. And it's good enough for most people. You're the one shouting like crazy on the internet about how everyone is wrong and making explicit general statements that the system is clearly unsafe. And that doesn't match my experience. And when asked for evidence of your own you admit it doesn't exist. So... it's like that Money Printer Go Brrr... meme. Shouting loudly about something you believe deeply doesn't make it true. Cars aren't crashing. QED.
        ra7 3y ago
        Precisely what I expected from you. You’re exactly Tesla’s target audience. The irony and projection in your comment is comical. “It’s safer than humans.” “Proof?” “Just look around, bro. Trust me, it’s good enough. No data needed.” Thankfully, some of us don’t lack critical thinking.