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It's a supervised system as deployed. How much "blind faith" are you really seeing vs. what you think you're interpreting. None of us are taking naps in the c

by ajross 3y ago

It's a supervised system as deployed. How much "blind faith" are you really seeing vs. what you think you're interpreting. None of us are taking naps in the cars. The system does continue to make mistakes, though virtually always of the "too conservative" variety. But it's also the most fun I've had in a vehicle in my whole life and an absolutely sale-maker for me personally. I simply won't buy a vehicle from another vendor until it can do this. So... I guess I repeat the question: where are you seeing "Tesla fans" using FSD unsupervised? I mean the linked article is almost unique in that it seems to have happened. And why? Well, it's buried but it turns out the driver was on autopilot because he was absolutely hammered: > Von Ohain and Rossiter had been drinking, and an autopsy found that von Ohain died with a blood alcohol level of 0.26 — more than three times the legal limit

ra7 3y ago
> So... I guess I repeat the question: where are you seeing "Tesla fans" using FSD unsupervised? One of the biggest Tesla influencers using FSD without his hands on the wheel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFW4e0Pkz_Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFW4e0Pkz_Y This is explicitly disallowed by FSD terms and conditions. He does this all the time.
- ajross 3y ago
  That seems like a bad faith argument. Do you genuinely feel that driving with your hands in your lap constitutes dangerous operation? The car asks for your hands on the wheel because that's the primary sensor it uses to monitor attention. In particular, do you genuinely feel that driving an FSD car with your hands in your lap constitutes the kind of inattention we were actually talking about (driving with a .26 BAC!). I mean, you don't freak out if you see someone using cruise control without their foot hovering over the brake, do you? Objectively and largely inarguably, braking control latency is more important to safety than steering latency.
  - ra7 3y ago
    Yes, I genuinely feel driving with my hands on my lap is dangerous. I own a Tesla, use Autopilot (not FSD, but applies to that as well) and always have my hands on the wheel because I know, at highway speeds, I may not be able to react quickly that one time. This is the entire reason Tesla has hands on the wheel requirement. And the reason for having that requirement, which is crux of the problem, is that the system is incomplete and incapable of safe operation.
genocidicbunny 3y ago
> So... I guess I repeat the question: where are you seeing "Tesla fans" using FSD unsupervised? Couple of days ago I passed a Tesla going 75mph down the highway and the driver was rummaging around in the back seat. And I don't mean just the lean over and reach for something on the seat, no he was unbuckled and halfway in the back row of the car looking for something. It was only a few moments, and I am sure that some system or other in the Tesla eventually noticed and warned the driver to take over, but at those speeds, it only takes a few seconds of inattention to end up in disaster. And personally, I've never, ever seen drivers of cars without some sort of self-driving capability do that.
fwip 3y ago
https://abc7chicago.com/tesla-asleep-at-wheel-sleeping-while-driving-driver-caught-snoozing/12777048/ https://abc7chicago.com/tesla-asleep-at-wheel-sleeping-while... Some of "you" actually are literally napping in the car.

by ajross 3y ago

ra7 3y ago

> So... I guess I repeat the question: where are you seeing "Tesla fans" using FSD unsupervised? One of the biggest Tesla influencers using FSD without his hands on the wheel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFW4e0Pkz_Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFW4e0Pkz_Y This is explicitly disallowed by FSD terms and conditions. He does this all the time.

ajross 3y ago
That seems like a bad faith argument. Do you genuinely feel that driving with your hands in your lap constitutes dangerous operation? The car asks for your hands on the wheel because that's the primary sensor it uses to monitor attention. In particular, do you genuinely feel that driving an FSD car with your hands in your lap constitutes the kind of inattention we were actually talking about (driving with a .26 BAC!). I mean, you don't freak out if you see someone using cruise control without their foot hovering over the brake, do you? Objectively and largely inarguably, braking control latency is more important to safety than steering latency.
- ra7 3y ago
  Yes, I genuinely feel driving with my hands on my lap is dangerous. I own a Tesla, use Autopilot (not FSD, but applies to that as well) and always have my hands on the wheel because I know, at highway speeds, I may not be able to react quickly that one time. This is the entire reason Tesla has hands on the wheel requirement. And the reason for having that requirement, which is crux of the problem, is that the system is incomplete and incapable of safe operation.

genocidicbunny 3y ago

> So... I guess I repeat the question: where are you seeing "Tesla fans" using FSD unsupervised? Couple of days ago I passed a Tesla going 75mph down the highway and the driver was rummaging around in the back seat. And I don't mean just the lean over and reach for something on the seat, no he was unbuckled and halfway in the back row of the car looking for something. It was only a few moments, and I am sure that some system or other in the Tesla eventually noticed and warned the driver to take over, but at those speeds, it only takes a few seconds of inattention to end up in disaster. And personally, I've never, ever seen drivers of cars without some sort of self-driving capability do that.

fwip 3y ago

https://abc7chicago.com/tesla-asleep-at-wheel-sleeping-while-driving-driver-caught-snoozing/12777048/ https://abc7chicago.com/tesla-asleep-at-wheel-sleeping-while... Some of "you" actually are literally napping in the car.