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So there's an interesting legal question here. If someone's drunk (i.e diminished reasoning) and steps into the car expecting that a feature named "full self d

So there's an interesting legal question here. If someone's drunk (i.e diminished reasoning) and steps into the car expecting that a feature named "full self driving" will safely drive them home, how is responsibility divided between the person who got drunk and the entity who created and named the "full self driving" feature? I don't think even a reasonable person could consistently conclude that "full self driving" isn't actually full self driving.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
If it's truly self driving then the passenger shouldn't be responsible at all. Would riders be responsible for taxi drivers?
- jMyles 3y ago
  Interesting question. If you get into a cab, and the driver is clearly drunk or exhibits violent behavior on the road, surely you have some responsibility to terminate your ride. So if you get into a Tesla with it's wink-wink-nudge-nudge-named FSD, which warns you to be ready to take over, and you then note that the person being asked to take over is intoxicated... it seems like the responsibility is clearly on the operator. But your standard - "it's truly self driving" - is a higher one. And I really don't know how to think about responsibility in that case, and it feels like a big problem. On one hand, it seems that, in the coming decades, we'll likely have actual full self-driving that operates in some situations in manners that are more safe than human drivers (especially people who are intoxicated, who also deserve a safe way home even in car-first hellscapes of urban planning). On the other hand, we've seen how most of the USA has been terraformed to accommodate the product being hocked by the auto industry, and that this product has long had an undesirable role in population-level mortality rates (even without FSD!). So yeah, I don't know. It seems like micro-mobility solutions, and getting highway vehicles out of cities, give us a better outlook altogether anyway. Particularly if there is robust public medium- and long-haul public transit which can convey micro-mobility solutions to faraway lands.
itishappy 3y ago
A reasonable person shouldn't be operating a 2 ton death device without an understanding of it's capabilities. Responsibility would fall to the operator unless the self driving assistance performed out of spec.
andix 3y ago
It depends what the "full self driving" feature is legally. How it is described, what the warning messages on the screen tell the driver, what the manual says. If the person was a Tesla employee I think it's safe to assume that they knew it is only an assistant system and the driver still needs to monitor it at all time and able to take over at any time. Hints into this direction pop up at the screen all the time. This could become more vague if once a driver gets into this situation that is illiterate or doesn't speak the language the car is set up to and genuinely misses all of that.
- kube-system 3y ago
  Anchoring and peer pressure are strong psychological biases. Public opinion and the opinions of a not-so-smart driver are very relevant when it comes to design for safety.
cchance 3y ago
Well keep in mind you can also overide speed with AP enabled, for all we know the drunk guy was in AP with the gas floored to override AP
xhkkffbf 3y ago
If they're drunk, can they reasonably assess the quality of the code? Can they do a legit code audit while drunk? Seriously, can they even decide anything?

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago

If it's truly self driving then the passenger shouldn't be responsible at all. Would riders be responsible for taxi drivers?

jMyles 3y ago
Interesting question. If you get into a cab, and the driver is clearly drunk or exhibits violent behavior on the road, surely you have some responsibility to terminate your ride. So if you get into a Tesla with it's wink-wink-nudge-nudge-named FSD, which warns you to be ready to take over, and you then note that the person being asked to take over is intoxicated... it seems like the responsibility is clearly on the operator. But your standard - "it's truly self driving" - is a higher one. And I really don't know how to think about responsibility in that case, and it feels like a big problem. On one hand, it seems that, in the coming decades, we'll likely have actual full self-driving that operates in some situations in manners that are more safe than human drivers (especially people who are intoxicated, who also deserve a safe way home even in car-first hellscapes of urban planning). On the other hand, we've seen how most of the USA has been terraformed to accommodate the product being hocked by the auto industry, and that this product has long had an undesirable role in population-level mortality rates (even without FSD!). So yeah, I don't know. It seems like micro-mobility solutions, and getting highway vehicles out of cities, give us a better outlook altogether anyway. Particularly if there is robust public medium- and long-haul public transit which can convey micro-mobility solutions to faraway lands.

itishappy 3y ago

A reasonable person shouldn't be operating a 2 ton death device without an understanding of it's capabilities. Responsibility would fall to the operator unless the self driving assistance performed out of spec.

andix 3y ago

It depends what the "full self driving" feature is legally. How it is described, what the warning messages on the screen tell the driver, what the manual says. If the person was a Tesla employee I think it's safe to assume that they knew it is only an assistant system and the driver still needs to monitor it at all time and able to take over at any time. Hints into this direction pop up at the screen all the time. This could become more vague if once a driver gets into this situation that is illiterate or doesn't speak the language the car is set up to and genuinely misses all of that.

kube-system 3y ago
Anchoring and peer pressure are strong psychological biases. Public opinion and the opinions of a not-so-smart driver are very relevant when it comes to design for safety.

cchance 3y ago

Well keep in mind you can also overide speed with AP enabled, for all we know the drunk guy was in AP with the gas floored to override AP

xhkkffbf 3y ago

If they're drunk, can they reasonably assess the quality of the code? Can they do a legit code audit while drunk? Seriously, can they even decide anything?