4 ms·

> Alternate modes of transportation don't even have to be faster, it just can't be substantially worse. Or perhaps (also?) at least consistent. While there a

> Alternate modes of transportation don't even have to be faster, it just can't be substantially worse. Or perhaps (also?) at least consistent. While there are trips that can be 'too long', I think what a lot of people hate a lot (maybe even most) is variability. If a trip is (e.g.) 43 minutes for >95% of the time, then they'll probably accept it. But if sometimes it is 30 minutes, sometimes 43, sometimes 57, and everything in between, then it's hard to plan your life around that.

UtopiaPunk 3y ago
Maybe. That variability is frustrating, but it exists terribly with driving as well. Rush hours, wrecks, construction, etc all can significantly impact driving times, too.
- genocidicbunny 3y ago
  My personal observation is that it's somewhat about control. With public transport, I have no control over the delays; If there's a delay, there's more or less nothing I can do about it. If driving, I can maybe choose an alternate route, and even if I can't do that, at least I am in control of the vehicle and _I_ am the one making the decisions. A related behaviour I've observed is how some drivers prefer to be moving very slowly rather than being in stop-and-go traffic, even if both end up getting you to the same destination.
  - UtopiaPunk 3y ago
    I suppose there's a mental framing aspect to feeling "in control." When I am in traffic behind the wheel of my car, I feel utterly stuck. Practically, I can do nothing but drive the vehicle and maybe listen to a podcast. When in a bus or train, I can read a book, play a video game, or answer emails/texts on my phone. If I'm on a really long journey, I can take out my laptop, connect it my phone's hotspot, and work on a project. Although, admittedly, waiting on a delayed train or bus in inclement weather can be pretty lousy. Having sheltered bus stops or indoor spaces (like a cafe) near stops/stations can make that experience much more comfortable.
underlipton 3y ago
I wonder if trip length variability is probably not as important as frequency. Being on a bus that takes a little longer than usual is mildly annoying, particularly if you know that the backup to your missed connection is only another 5-10 minutes out. However, if the bus that you'd usually catch only has service on the hour, which means that you're waiting 20 minutes for your connection, and also, if anything happens on that first leg, your wait is likely to be closer to an hour for the next one... You just drive. (This is by design.) But then, with driving, traffic presents you with similar dilemma, along with the added "fun" of much higher injury/fatality rates, the direct expenses of gas and insurance and maintenance and repairs, and the chances of people pulled over by a cop with a bad attitude. To my mind, very little is as important as the ability to get up and move when you see fit. Cars actually suck for this without a lot of support and a lot of Americans' hard-earned money being sunk into resources and infrastructure that just sits there the vast majority of the time. I'd rather empty busses and trains I can count on to be there (and be safe) versus my experience with owning my personal vehicle (dangerous and expensive).
aftbit 3y ago
Ironically I had the exact opposite experience on BART. Sure, occasionally "police activity" or a "major medical emergency" (splat) or maybe just equipment failure would lead to an extra long train trip. But 95% of the time, it would take me under 60 minutes door to door. If I took a car, it might take 30 minutes, or it might take 90 minutes, and there was really no way of knowing which until I got to the bay bridge.

UtopiaPunk 3y ago

Maybe. That variability is frustrating, but it exists terribly with driving as well. Rush hours, wrecks, construction, etc all can significantly impact driving times, too.

genocidicbunny 3y ago
My personal observation is that it's somewhat about control. With public transport, I have no control over the delays; If there's a delay, there's more or less nothing I can do about it. If driving, I can maybe choose an alternate route, and even if I can't do that, at least I am in control of the vehicle and _I_ am the one making the decisions. A related behaviour I've observed is how some drivers prefer to be moving very slowly rather than being in stop-and-go traffic, even if both end up getting you to the same destination.
- UtopiaPunk 3y ago
  I suppose there's a mental framing aspect to feeling "in control." When I am in traffic behind the wheel of my car, I feel utterly stuck. Practically, I can do nothing but drive the vehicle and maybe listen to a podcast. When in a bus or train, I can read a book, play a video game, or answer emails/texts on my phone. If I'm on a really long journey, I can take out my laptop, connect it my phone's hotspot, and work on a project. Although, admittedly, waiting on a delayed train or bus in inclement weather can be pretty lousy. Having sheltered bus stops or indoor spaces (like a cafe) near stops/stations can make that experience much more comfortable.

underlipton 3y ago

I wonder if trip length variability is probably not as important as frequency. Being on a bus that takes a little longer than usual is mildly annoying, particularly if you know that the backup to your missed connection is only another 5-10 minutes out. However, if the bus that you'd usually catch only has service on the hour, which means that you're waiting 20 minutes for your connection, and also, if anything happens on that first leg, your wait is likely to be closer to an hour for the next one... You just drive. (This is by design.) But then, with driving, traffic presents you with similar dilemma, along with the added "fun" of much higher injury/fatality rates, the direct expenses of gas and insurance and maintenance and repairs, and the chances of people pulled over by a cop with a bad attitude. To my mind, very little is as important as the ability to get up and move when you see fit. Cars actually suck for this without a lot of support and a lot of Americans' hard-earned money being sunk into resources and infrastructure that just sits there the vast majority of the time. I'd rather empty busses and trains I can count on to be there (and be safe) versus my experience with owning my personal vehicle (dangerous and expensive).

aftbit 3y ago

Ironically I had the exact opposite experience on BART. Sure, occasionally "police activity" or a "major medical emergency" (splat) or maybe just equipment failure would lead to an extra long train trip. But 95% of the time, it would take me under 60 minutes door to door. If I took a car, it might take 30 minutes, or it might take 90 minutes, and there was really no way of knowing which until I got to the bay bridge.