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> What evidence do they have that this is the case, and that other approaches - like a 9am raid - don't have better outcomes for everyone involved? The point o

> What evidence do they have that this is the case, and that other approaches - like a 9am raid - don't have better outcomes for everyone involved? The point of raiding earlier in the morning is that if you catch the suspects by surprise while they’re asleep, they’re less likely to be tipped off and ambush the officers. This sort of thing happens more often than you think. What’s more, we live in a country where people will literally make false 911 calls in order to lure random police into an ambush and kill them, like this incident in Bristol, CT in 2022. (https://apnews.com/article/shootings-connecticut-bristol-hartford-6efd1a56f0f7f958698eff0068de6bef https://apnews.com/article/shootings-connecticut-bristol-har...) So yes, it is absolutely reasonable for the police to consider the possibility that a suspect might just want to kill a cop for the sake of killing a cop—especially in a domestic terrorism case that is primarily motivated by hating cops in the first place! > If no guns or explosives are found, and these people are never arrested, never tried, or never convicted, can we retroactively say the raids was needlessly harsh, and thus casting doubt on the reasoning the police use to justify this sort of raid in the first place You can’t judge these things in hindsight. They made the decision they did with the information they had at the time, and in order to get a search warrant, they had to convince a judge that they had probable cause based on the evidence available to them already. And you continue to ignore the fact that dozens of people have been indicted in this same case already.

eesmith 3y ago
That is an argument. Where is the evidence to support that argument? The US is also a country with SWATting, because people know the police come in with a huge amount of force, and the application of that force can be mentally and physically abusive to the targets of the SWATting - the side effect is the goal. If the police are not prepared to handle something as simple as bringing in a robe or blanket to preserve a half-naked woman's sense of decency, then they are deliberately avoiding making these raids less abusive.
- philwelch 3y ago
  > Where is the evidence to support that argument? I’ve presented evidence that people actually do prepare ambushes for the police and that the basic threat isn’t purely hypothetical. It should be obvious that being taken by surprise prevents someone from preparing an ambush; if you think about the basic concepts of “surprise” and “preparing an ambush” for a few minutes I have faith you can figure out why! > If the police are not prepared to handle something as simple as bringing in a robe or blanket to preserve a half-naked woman's sense of decency, then they are deliberately avoiding making these raids less abusive. They probably did, but the “protesters” have a specific bias and a specific agenda so they likely added some lies and exaggerations to the story. This sort of thing happens all the time. And the Guardian took their word for it because of their biases.

eesmith 3y ago

That is an argument. Where is the evidence to support that argument? The US is also a country with SWATting, because people know the police come in with a huge amount of force, and the application of that force can be mentally and physically abusive to the targets of the SWATting - the side effect is the goal. If the police are not prepared to handle something as simple as bringing in a robe or blanket to preserve a half-naked woman's sense of decency, then they are deliberately avoiding making these raids less abusive.

philwelch 3y ago
> Where is the evidence to support that argument? I’ve presented evidence that people actually do prepare ambushes for the police and that the basic threat isn’t purely hypothetical. It should be obvious that being taken by surprise prevents someone from preparing an ambush; if you think about the basic concepts of “surprise” and “preparing an ambush” for a few minutes I have faith you can figure out why! > If the police are not prepared to handle something as simple as bringing in a robe or blanket to preserve a half-naked woman's sense of decency, then they are deliberately avoiding making these raids less abusive. They probably did, but the “protesters” have a specific bias and a specific agenda so they likely added some lies and exaggerations to the story. This sort of thing happens all the time. And the Guardian took their word for it because of their biases.