4 ms·

Please do be aware that this is an openly white-supremacist Twitter account

by biggestlou 3y ago

hasty_pudding 3y ago
[flagged]
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  I reckon you're just being edgy for the sake of it but it's still a shitty take. The only thing that an ancient greek, a renaissance italian, and a modern american share is that the american thinks they are all white. Otherwise these groups share almost nothing in culture, religion, ancestry, worldview. Being able to have this open-ended ability to cherry pick things from highly disparate times and places and consider them "white" is white supremacy. A modern palestinian is culturally closer to an ancient greek than you are. These things simply are not yours to claim, or at least not any more than they are all of ours.
  - hasty_pudding 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - giraffe_lady 3y ago
      It's shitty because only whiteness is defined negatively by what it is not. Africans may disagree about what it means to be african, but there is long-term near consensus on who is african and why. What defines white people, other than who is not part of it? What is it that all white people share, other than whiteness itself? Those other groups do share some of ancestry, history, culture, religion, especially certain historical experiences. Within those groups you mentioned, there are certainly interesting discussions about what comprises it. I don't, for example, know of any mainstream thinkers who frame a unified african people, except one defined by an experience of exploitation and colonialism. Certainly in contrast to african americans, who do share the culture and history of having their culture and history forcibly removed from them, and forging a new one in a place they did not choose. As an exercise though, define "white people" in a way that is useful and coherent, and extends from the present back through the sistine chapel and to the ancient greeks. All of the others groups you mentioned are able to do this within their own histories so it should be straightforward. You shouldn't have to use something so crude as skin color, of course, since I'm sure there's much more to your people than that.
      - joenot443 3y ago
        Have you read Scott's piece on this subject? [1] He pretty confidently dismantles the arguments you're making, particularly the isolated demand for rigor. I don't agree at all with the individual you're replying to, I'd just like to point out that "white people don't exist" is a pretty silly hill to die on and if anything it's making the rest of your argument seem a lot weaker. [1] https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/12/does-race-exist-does-culture/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/12/does-race-exist-does-c...
        giraffe_lady 3y ago
        I'm not saying white people don't exist I'm saying it's only a useful category if you define it negatively in terms of who is not in it. I haven't read anything by alexander in a long time but it doesn't surprise me that he has essays promoting white supremacist talking points since I strongly suspect that that is a key goal of his whole project.
        joenot443 3y ago
        > I'm saying it's only a useful category if you define it negatively in terms of who is not in it. Fascinating. That's a position I haven't heard before. It's too bad you're unable to take the time to read the piece, it's quite good. Sounds like we have pretty divergent views on Scott and his writing. I'd encourage you to give it another chance, at the very least to expand what I'm sensing is a pretty solidly cemented worldview. I admit I'm disappointed that in a community like HN you'd be so willing to paint anyone who disagrees on such minutia with such a broad and mean-spirited brush, but I suppose that's your prerogative. God bless.
        hasty_pudding 3y ago
        [flagged]
      - hasty_pudding 3y ago
        [flagged]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
zamadatix 3y ago
How can you tell? This is a genuine question about trying understand how people get any information out of the Twitter interface. All I can find are hundreds of architectural desire posts sprinkled with some religious ones before having no idea how to try a different way and giving up.
- u32480932048 3y ago
  Science sez that anyone who shares pictures of a marble statue is Literally Hitler (And by Science I mean my Tumblr friends)
StevePerkins 3y ago
If it is, then it's certainly not very good at it. Scrolling back the past 6 months, I see only tweets about U.S. and European architecture and urban planning. There are indications that the account owner is religious, and grumbles about "wokeism" to the extent of secularlism being anti-religion, but that's about as insidious as it got. Got any citations other than "He's too interested in Europe", or "He continues to tweet on X post-Elon"?
joenot443 3y ago
It's a clumsy stretch to label anything outside your presumably very narrow view on European history as being "openly white-supremacist". I think you've lost the plot, my friend.
DiscourseFan 3y ago
It seems more like an SA type ideology, not really white supremacist per se (in fact, most SA fascists are fairly harmless, they're just really into like, traditional life and beauty and going back to the earth and shit--though that does sometimes involve deporting all the minorities). The problem isn't that they're fascists, they are actually really bad with political organizing and gaining power because they so severely reject modernity. The problem is that they get duped by the SS types and then when they rise to power they just kill all the SA guys (its what happened in Germany).
- u32480932048 3y ago
  Sorry, SA? I was expecting a hyphenated ideology, not what Google gave me: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-sa https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-sa
  - DiscourseFan 3y ago
    Yes! Famous members include Ernst Jünger and Martin Heidegger, both of whom were "redeemed" after the war. Again, the former SA members were not considered as much of a problem to the post-war alliance as those of the SS (take that information as you like).
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
u32480932048 3y ago
Source?
snakeyjake 3y ago
I love how you're right, that account is flagrantly white-supremacist, and everyone is downvoting your comment. Very carefully and deliberately sprinkled among the posts are pro-Russian and leading questions designed to allow for "frank and earnest discussion" in the replies. Questions like: Why don't you live in London? With a cute picture of a London neighborhood. A question that has been explicitly asked to elicit "because the muslims are ruining everything" in the comments. Why don't we make art like this anymore? With a renaissance painting. A question that has explicitly been asked to elicit "Because the radical trans-feminists are destroying art and culture" in the comments. Why doesn't paris have architecture anymore? With a picture of an 1800s cafe. A question that has been explicitly asked to elicit "because the globalists want to homogenize everything that matters and increase the diversity of everything that doesn't matter." What's the craziest thing you've heard of in the name of self-care? A question that has been explicitly asked to elicit "Open borders as "self care" for nations to "increase birth rates"." This method of social media proselytization is very common and has been honed over the last 20 or so years to very slowly and deliberately introduce white supremacist ideas while cloaking the posts themselves in a veneer of respectability. My assertion is that the people downvoting your comment are either white supremacists, or too stupid to realize they're being played. All of my "because the..." responses were pulled directly from top-level responses to their "call and response" posts, btw. The newsletter the account's bio links to removes the veil.
francisofascii 3y ago
Serious accusations like this require more explicit evidence. One of the more significant contributions of Western culture are concepts like "innocent until proven guilty" and the "burden of proof lies with the accuser".

Please do be aware that this is an openly white-supremacist Twitter account

hasty_pudding 3y ago

[flagged]

giraffe_lady 3y ago
I reckon you're just being edgy for the sake of it but it's still a shitty take. The only thing that an ancient greek, a renaissance italian, and a modern american share is that the american thinks they are all white. Otherwise these groups share almost nothing in culture, religion, ancestry, worldview. Being able to have this open-ended ability to cherry pick things from highly disparate times and places and consider them "white" is white supremacy. A modern palestinian is culturally closer to an ancient greek than you are. These things simply are not yours to claim, or at least not any more than they are all of ours.
- hasty_pudding 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    It's shitty because only whiteness is defined negatively by what it is not. Africans may disagree about what it means to be african, but there is long-term near consensus on who is african and why. What defines white people, other than who is not part of it? What is it that all white people share, other than whiteness itself? Those other groups do share some of ancestry, history, culture, religion, especially certain historical experiences. Within those groups you mentioned, there are certainly interesting discussions about what comprises it. I don't, for example, know of any mainstream thinkers who frame a unified african people, except one defined by an experience of exploitation and colonialism. Certainly in contrast to african americans, who do share the culture and history of having their culture and history forcibly removed from them, and forging a new one in a place they did not choose. As an exercise though, define "white people" in a way that is useful and coherent, and extends from the present back through the sistine chapel and to the ancient greeks. All of the others groups you mentioned are able to do this within their own histories so it should be straightforward. You shouldn't have to use something so crude as skin color, of course, since I'm sure there's much more to your people than that.
    - joenot443 3y ago
      Have you read Scott's piece on this subject? [1] He pretty confidently dismantles the arguments you're making, particularly the isolated demand for rigor. I don't agree at all with the individual you're replying to, I'd just like to point out that "white people don't exist" is a pretty silly hill to die on and if anything it's making the rest of your argument seem a lot weaker. [1] https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/12/does-race-exist-does-culture/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/12/does-race-exist-does-c...
      - giraffe_lady 3y ago
        I'm not saying white people don't exist I'm saying it's only a useful category if you define it negatively in terms of who is not in it. I haven't read anything by alexander in a long time but it doesn't surprise me that he has essays promoting white supremacist talking points since I strongly suspect that that is a key goal of his whole project.
        joenot443 3y ago
        > I'm saying it's only a useful category if you define it negatively in terms of who is not in it. Fascinating. That's a position I haven't heard before. It's too bad you're unable to take the time to read the piece, it's quite good. Sounds like we have pretty divergent views on Scott and his writing. I'd encourage you to give it another chance, at the very least to expand what I'm sensing is a pretty solidly cemented worldview. I admit I'm disappointed that in a community like HN you'd be so willing to paint anyone who disagrees on such minutia with such a broad and mean-spirited brush, but I suppose that's your prerogative. God bless.
        hasty_pudding 3y ago
        [flagged]
    - hasty_pudding 3y ago
      [flagged]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

zamadatix 3y ago

How can you tell? This is a genuine question about trying understand how people get any information out of the Twitter interface. All I can find are hundreds of architectural desire posts sprinkled with some religious ones before having no idea how to try a different way and giving up.

u32480932048 3y ago
Science sez that anyone who shares pictures of a marble statue is Literally Hitler (And by Science I mean my Tumblr friends)

StevePerkins 3y ago

If it is, then it's certainly not very good at it. Scrolling back the past 6 months, I see only tweets about U.S. and European architecture and urban planning. There are indications that the account owner is religious, and grumbles about "wokeism" to the extent of secularlism being anti-religion, but that's about as insidious as it got. Got any citations other than "He's too interested in Europe", or "He continues to tweet on X post-Elon"?

joenot443 3y ago

It's a clumsy stretch to label anything outside your presumably very narrow view on European history as being "openly white-supremacist". I think you've lost the plot, my friend.

DiscourseFan 3y ago

It seems more like an SA type ideology, not really white supremacist per se (in fact, most SA fascists are fairly harmless, they're just really into like, traditional life and beauty and going back to the earth and shit--though that does sometimes involve deporting all the minorities). The problem isn't that they're fascists, they are actually really bad with political organizing and gaining power because they so severely reject modernity. The problem is that they get duped by the SS types and then when they rise to power they just kill all the SA guys (its what happened in Germany).

u32480932048 3y ago
Sorry, SA? I was expecting a hyphenated ideology, not what Google gave me: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-sa https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-sa
- DiscourseFan 3y ago
  Yes! Famous members include Ernst Jünger and Martin Heidegger, both of whom were "redeemed" after the war. Again, the former SA members were not considered as much of a problem to the post-war alliance as those of the SS (take that information as you like).
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

u32480932048 3y ago

Source?

snakeyjake 3y ago

I love how you're right, that account is flagrantly white-supremacist, and everyone is downvoting your comment. Very carefully and deliberately sprinkled among the posts are pro-Russian and leading questions designed to allow for "frank and earnest discussion" in the replies. Questions like: Why don't you live in London? With a cute picture of a London neighborhood. A question that has been explicitly asked to elicit "because the muslims are ruining everything" in the comments. Why don't we make art like this anymore? With a renaissance painting. A question that has explicitly been asked to elicit "Because the radical trans-feminists are destroying art and culture" in the comments. Why doesn't paris have architecture anymore? With a picture of an 1800s cafe. A question that has been explicitly asked to elicit "because the globalists want to homogenize everything that matters and increase the diversity of everything that doesn't matter." What's the craziest thing you've heard of in the name of self-care? A question that has been explicitly asked to elicit "Open borders as "self care" for nations to "increase birth rates"." This method of social media proselytization is very common and has been honed over the last 20 or so years to very slowly and deliberately introduce white supremacist ideas while cloaking the posts themselves in a veneer of respectability. My assertion is that the people downvoting your comment are either white supremacists, or too stupid to realize they're being played. All of my "because the..." responses were pulled directly from top-level responses to their "call and response" posts, btw. The newsletter the account's bio links to removes the veil.

francisofascii 3y ago

Serious accusations like this require more explicit evidence. One of the more significant contributions of Western culture are concepts like "innocent until proven guilty" and the "burden of proof lies with the accuser".