6 ms·

Couldn't agree more. This reminds me of the codes of conduct hell from a few years ago.

zilti 3y ago
That is an interesting one. "The internet doesn't forget", they say, but all the bs and mudslinging around that got basically purged from the internet. It's impressive sometimes.
- beeboobaa 3y ago
  Every time I see a respectable project use a Code of Conduct I remind myself that, unfortunately, Caroline Ada won[1] and also that github will ban you if your code uses words they don't like[2] [1] https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941 https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941 [2] https://github.com/nixxquality/WebMConverter/commit/c1ac0baac06fa7175677a4a1bf65860a84708d67 https://github.com/nixxquality/WebMConverter/commit/c1ac0baa...
  - pavlov 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - ad404b8a372f2b9 3y ago
      Just like I'm free not to use Whatsapp, as long as I don't mind not being able to contact most of my family and friends. And I'm free not to use Facebook, as long as I don't mind not having access to specific medical support groups which are only available there. And Cloudflare, as long as I can stop using most modern websites. And so on, you get my point.
      - Intermernet 3y ago
        [flagged]
        Pannoniae 3y ago
        censorship is still censorship just because a private corporation does it.... and it's not a free market at all, there are many regulations concerning these industries
        zilti 3y ago
        Those mentioned platforms are big enough that it is not a free market anymore. Guess why the EU is going after them one-by-one.
        mianos 3y ago
        None of them are monopolies. The EU will eventually be 'looking at' corner stores. If it becomes too costly to operate in the EU, multinationals will eventually leave. Maybe someone in Europe will invent another cloudflare, github etc. They do have Telegram to replace WhatsApp.
        ThunderSizzle 3y ago
        They are monopolistic. If I want to buy Coke, I can go to nearly any store. I don't need to only go to one store. If I want to interact with an open source project on Github, then I have to go to Github. I can't choose to go to sourcehut or bitbucket to interact with that project. If github was just another git server (aka just another store) and I could go to any store to get coke (aka open source project), then it wouldn't matter. But it's not just another store or interface.
        mianos 3y ago
        The product github supplies is a 'service', project hosting. There are multiple providers of that service. Github is not a supplier of the software projects themselves any more than the telco is a provider of conversation or S3 is a supplier of Netflix movies.
        Intermernet 3y ago
        The combination of git being an open protocol, and open source licensing (as it's meant to be) means that you can definitely fork and re-host many projects on Github. The issues that practically stop you from doing this aren't actually the fault of Github. I'm not trying to defend Github here, but it's not the best example you could have chosen.
    - coldtea 3y ago
      I, for one, don't believe in the freedom that "free enterprise" supposedly affords in theory. I believe in the practical reality, in which some companies/social media/products become near monopolies, and there's always an additional cost to "not using it", not just "chose this or that and get equivalent functionality". In general, I find your answer not that different than the right wing "if you don't like it here, just move to another country".
      - indigochill 3y ago
        > "if you don't like it here, just move to another country". But that _should_ be easier in the digital world than the physical one. That Github has become such a center of everything _is itself a problem_. Codeberg is one answer to that: they host open source projects and also provide CI to those projects on an as-needed basis (decoupling the service from financial constraints by limiting their audience and therefore their costs to provide this service). Hosting code forges for particular communities is another way (I think SDF does this for theirs?). It's easier today than it ever has been in the past. If we just say "I have to use the monopoly because it's too expensive not to" than we're part of the problem.
        account42 3y ago
        > But that _should_ be easier in the digital world than the physical one. Permanent bans without a chace to appeal are vanishingly rare in the physical world but extremely common in the digital world.
  - elzbardico 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - Jensson 3y ago
      > If she had really won, we wouldn't be able to be having this exact discussion right now What does HN have to do with github policies?
  - rockskon 3y ago
    Eh. Some things can still change going forward while others won't. The future is unwritten. I see cultural change as analogous to steering a large ship. You won't be doing any sharp turns but you can gradually move it in a different direction.
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  Don't worry, people archived quite a lot of it. As did I. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21386948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21386948 The GitHub issue I linked is gone but those archive links are still up. Never forget the fact they laughed in people's faces when they tried to hold them accountable to their own rules. This brutal article also came to mind: https://zedshaw.com/blog/2020-10-07-authoritarianism-of-code/ https://zedshaw.com/blog/2020-10-07-authoritarianism-of-code...
beeboobaa 3y ago
If nothing else, that while ordeal has shown you can get a job at GitHub even if your only marketable skill is harassing people.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  im looking to jump, explain honkey

That is an interesting one. "The internet doesn't forget", they say, but all the bs and mudslinging around that got basically purged from the internet. It's impressive sometimes.

beeboobaa 3y ago
Every time I see a respectable project use a Code of Conduct I remind myself that, unfortunately, Caroline Ada won[1] and also that github will ban you if your code uses words they don't like[2] [1] https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941 https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941 [2] https://github.com/nixxquality/WebMConverter/commit/c1ac0baac06fa7175677a4a1bf65860a84708d67 https://github.com/nixxquality/WebMConverter/commit/c1ac0baa...
- pavlov 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ad404b8a372f2b9 3y ago
    Just like I'm free not to use Whatsapp, as long as I don't mind not being able to contact most of my family and friends. And I'm free not to use Facebook, as long as I don't mind not having access to specific medical support groups which are only available there. And Cloudflare, as long as I can stop using most modern websites. And so on, you get my point.
    - Intermernet 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - Pannoniae 3y ago
        censorship is still censorship just because a private corporation does it.... and it's not a free market at all, there are many regulations concerning these industries
      - zilti 3y ago
        Those mentioned platforms are big enough that it is not a free market anymore. Guess why the EU is going after them one-by-one.
        mianos 3y ago
        None of them are monopolies. The EU will eventually be 'looking at' corner stores. If it becomes too costly to operate in the EU, multinationals will eventually leave. Maybe someone in Europe will invent another cloudflare, github etc. They do have Telegram to replace WhatsApp.
        ThunderSizzle 3y ago
        They are monopolistic. If I want to buy Coke, I can go to nearly any store. I don't need to only go to one store. If I want to interact with an open source project on Github, then I have to go to Github. I can't choose to go to sourcehut or bitbucket to interact with that project. If github was just another git server (aka just another store) and I could go to any store to get coke (aka open source project), then it wouldn't matter. But it's not just another store or interface.
        mianos 3y ago
        The product github supplies is a 'service', project hosting. There are multiple providers of that service. Github is not a supplier of the software projects themselves any more than the telco is a provider of conversation or S3 is a supplier of Netflix movies.
        Intermernet 3y ago
        The combination of git being an open protocol, and open source licensing (as it's meant to be) means that you can definitely fork and re-host many projects on Github. The issues that practically stop you from doing this aren't actually the fault of Github. I'm not trying to defend Github here, but it's not the best example you could have chosen.
  - coldtea 3y ago
    I, for one, don't believe in the freedom that "free enterprise" supposedly affords in theory. I believe in the practical reality, in which some companies/social media/products become near monopolies, and there's always an additional cost to "not using it", not just "chose this or that and get equivalent functionality". In general, I find your answer not that different than the right wing "if you don't like it here, just move to another country".
    - indigochill 3y ago
      > "if you don't like it here, just move to another country". But that _should_ be easier in the digital world than the physical one. That Github has become such a center of everything _is itself a problem_. Codeberg is one answer to that: they host open source projects and also provide CI to those projects on an as-needed basis (decoupling the service from financial constraints by limiting their audience and therefore their costs to provide this service). Hosting code forges for particular communities is another way (I think SDF does this for theirs?). It's easier today than it ever has been in the past. If we just say "I have to use the monopoly because it's too expensive not to" than we're part of the problem.
      - account42 3y ago
        > But that _should_ be easier in the digital world than the physical one. Permanent bans without a chace to appeal are vanishingly rare in the physical world but extremely common in the digital world.
- elzbardico 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - Jensson 3y ago
    > If she had really won, we wouldn't be able to be having this exact discussion right now What does HN have to do with github policies?
- rockskon 3y ago
  Eh. Some things can still change going forward while others won't. The future is unwritten. I see cultural change as analogous to steering a large ship. You won't be doing any sharp turns but you can gradually move it in a different direction.
matheusmoreira 3y ago
Don't worry, people archived quite a lot of it. As did I. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21386948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21386948 The GitHub issue I linked is gone but those archive links are still up. Never forget the fact they laughed in people's faces when they tried to hold them accountable to their own rules. This brutal article also came to mind: https://zedshaw.com/blog/2020-10-07-authoritarianism-of-code/ https://zedshaw.com/blog/2020-10-07-authoritarianism-of-code...

beeboobaa 3y ago

If nothing else, that while ordeal has shown you can get a job at GitHub even if your only marketable skill is harassing people.

red-iron-pine 3y ago
im looking to jump, explain honkey