5 ms·

Not critiquing you but the approach - that's abysmal UX. If PayPal blocks your account with no feedback, that's incredibly anxiety inducing. And in an environm

by rmholt 3y ago

Not critiquing you but the approach - that's abysmal UX. If PayPal blocks your account with no feedback, that's incredibly anxiety inducing. And in an environment like finance, good communication of the status of the account should be the difference between an "oh okay that's fair" and a lawsuit for theft.

mcv 3y ago
Not only anxiety inducing, it can actively deny the customer the thing they paid for. I've heard of events that had to be cancelled because PayPal didn't want to release the money. PayPal making the chargebacks a self-fulfilling prophesy.
- droopyEyelids 3y ago
  Your example is where naive business hits the wall of reality. Collecting money for events is the archetypal high risk credit card processing business. You get to spend all the money in advance, while the processor holds your chargeback liability that will only come due after your cash flow dries up Every processor mentions this in their t&c. Events require special underwriting.
  - mcv 3y ago
    The real problem is that the possibility of chargebacks makes every transaction uncertain. Chargebacks are an ugly fix to a broken system. Direct payment is better in nearly all situations. The one exception being dishonest merchants, but I don't think that's something you can really fix without lawsuits and/or police.
    - droopyEyelids 3y ago
      You still aren't accounting for the case of things sold in the future, like event tickets. That's a unique situation because the event organizer (or kickstarter inventor, or travel agent, etc) needs the money now to invest in something they may not be able actually provide. That isn't dishonesty, but a question of competence plus the uncertainty of life. Those types of businesses rely on loans. The money has to come from somewhere, and be spent before the product is delivered. A payment processor is not in the business of giving loans.
      - mcv 3y ago
        Event tickets are easy to account for. Just specify who carries the risk in case the event is cancelled or the customer can't go the the event. The money can be reimbursed. Happens all the time. The only problem is when the merchant is dishonest. Also too common, that's really a legal and regulatory matter, because there are always ways in which sellers can break the law.
    - ryandrake 3y ago
      Lawsuits are expensive and police won't even pick up the phone. Chargeback is one of the only powers I have as a consumer who is otherwise relying on a merchant being honest and responsive to problems. The last part has become increasingly difficult. A merchant might be honest, but if they don't have customer support and do not reply to issues, that's indistinguishable from dishonesty. For the first 20 years of having a credit card, I had to do one chargeback: an online "merchant" who was totally fraudulent. In the last 2-3 years, I've had to do about 4 chargebacks, and it's mostly otherwise-legit companies ghosting me.

by rmholt 3y ago

mcv 3y ago

Not only anxiety inducing, it can actively deny the customer the thing they paid for. I've heard of events that had to be cancelled because PayPal didn't want to release the money. PayPal making the chargebacks a self-fulfilling prophesy.

droopyEyelids 3y ago
Your example is where naive business hits the wall of reality. Collecting money for events is the archetypal high risk credit card processing business. You get to spend all the money in advance, while the processor holds your chargeback liability that will only come due after your cash flow dries up Every processor mentions this in their t&c. Events require special underwriting.
- mcv 3y ago
  The real problem is that the possibility of chargebacks makes every transaction uncertain. Chargebacks are an ugly fix to a broken system. Direct payment is better in nearly all situations. The one exception being dishonest merchants, but I don't think that's something you can really fix without lawsuits and/or police.
  - droopyEyelids 3y ago
    You still aren't accounting for the case of things sold in the future, like event tickets. That's a unique situation because the event organizer (or kickstarter inventor, or travel agent, etc) needs the money now to invest in something they may not be able actually provide. That isn't dishonesty, but a question of competence plus the uncertainty of life. Those types of businesses rely on loans. The money has to come from somewhere, and be spent before the product is delivered. A payment processor is not in the business of giving loans.
    - mcv 3y ago
      Event tickets are easy to account for. Just specify who carries the risk in case the event is cancelled or the customer can't go the the event. The money can be reimbursed. Happens all the time. The only problem is when the merchant is dishonest. Also too common, that's really a legal and regulatory matter, because there are always ways in which sellers can break the law.
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    Lawsuits are expensive and police won't even pick up the phone. Chargeback is one of the only powers I have as a consumer who is otherwise relying on a merchant being honest and responsive to problems. The last part has become increasingly difficult. A merchant might be honest, but if they don't have customer support and do not reply to issues, that's indistinguishable from dishonesty. For the first 20 years of having a credit card, I had to do one chargeback: an online "merchant" who was totally fraudulent. In the last 2-3 years, I've had to do about 4 chargebacks, and it's mostly otherwise-legit companies ghosting me.