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> Like I want light switches that match my server state for my lights. If I change the switch via my phone, I want the switches to change as well so that the ph

> Like I want light switches that match my server state for my lights. If I change the switch via my phone, I want the switches to change as well so that the physical switch is always the true state of the light. Like it's an absolute requirement that they show a different physical position when on or off? I've got some relatively cheap z-wave switches. They're only momentary, but up is on and down is off. When they're off, I have them configured to show a small white light on the bottom. So my indication of switch state is "small light = off, big light in the middle of the ceiling = on". The switches _can't_ be out of sync with their state because they are directly controlling the attached lights. If anything were to somehow get out of sync, it would be home assistant.

gregmac 3y ago
Yeah, same here. I just don't see the need for a "mechanical indicator" like the OP seems to be asking for, because you can tell by the state of the room. Mechanical switches aren't even reliable for this because of how 3-way switches work (their state doesn't indicate the state of the light). Unless you remember which are 3-way and which are single, you can't trust any of them. With smart switches in the same locations this is a non-issue. An interesting thing is switches where you can't see if they're on as easily, such as the outside front lights, are for the most part fully automated (based on timer/door/motion and/or camera object detection) and we basically never touch the switch at all. It's important to be consistent, though, since you technically can program the switches to do anything. In my house pressing up once turns the light on as you'd expect, but in some rooms the light will be less than 100% or have a warmer color temperature at night. Pressing twice turns on max brightness (or something similar, such as: 5000K color temp; also turning on the lights an adjacent room; turning on _all_ the backyard lights). I rarely use 3, 4 or 5-taps except for a couple special things (eg: 4x off on my office switch puts my PC to sleep; 3x on one of the basement switches activates a "party mode" my kid loves).
- andsoitis 3y ago
  > Yeah, same here. I just don't see the need for a "mechanical indicator" like the OP seems to be asking for, because you can tell by the state of the room. It is an aesthetic concern. If you have two light switches next to each other, they can get out if sync by being in different positions but representing the same state (light on or off). That would be very ugly.
  - thinkmassive 3y ago
    Have you ever used a three-way light switch? Plus the momentary switches are always centered, they look fine next to traditional switches in either position.
  - karlshea 3y ago
    I think people are asking why he needs a mechanical indicator because there are a bunch of switches available now that don't have one but also don't really look out of place.
  - thunfischbrot 3y ago
    I solved this by using "Push-Button Switches": https://katalog.gira.de/en/datenblatt.html?ean=4010337126034&car=1 https://katalog.gira.de/en/datenblatt.html?ean=4010337126034... They look like a push-button, are therefore always "aligned", though the electrical switch alternates between open and closed.
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    My apartment has stateless switches for the radio controlled lights. (I don't know the details of the system.) I've lived there for over 5 years, and I still regularly press the wrong switch where there are two or three next to each other.
  - jgalt212 3y ago
    True. If you have a 3-way switch next to a 2-way switch, you get the same confusion.
  - nucleardog 3y ago
    > If you have two light switches next to each other, they can get out if sync by being in different positions but representing the same state (light on or off). I have some of these: https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/collections/800-series-z-wave-long-range-devices/products/zooz-700-series-z-wave-plus-on-off-light-switch-zen71 https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/collections/800-series-z-wa... (Third photo shows a side view.) They can't be in different physical positions. They're momentary switches. When you press it up then release, it goes back to centered. The only indication of state on the switch is the (configurable/optional) little LED at the bottom of the switch. I have mine set so it's white if the switch is off (helps you find it in the dark), and off when the switch is on. So if you have any 3-way switches in your house (I do!), it's actually an improvement as far as your concerns.
makapuf 3y ago
None of my lamps have a set position for on or off since they're on a toggle switch.
euroderf 3y ago
> some relatively cheap z-wave switches. They're only momentary, but up is on and down is off. When they're off, I have them configured to show a small white light on the bottom. This sounds great. Can you provide a pointer or full search term to getting these ?
- windexh8er 3y ago
  Zwave Light Switch
- michaelmior 3y ago
  The Inovelli Red series is a popular choice for Z-Wave switches. They also make a Zigbee version with similar features. Personally, I have been using Lutron Caseta switches which use a proprietary protocol, but you can get local control and they've been incredibly solid.
  - twisteriffic 3y ago
    The range and battery life on the remotes is unbelievable as well.
  - lsaferite 3y ago
    Over the years, every time I've looked at the Inovelli switches they are always out of stock. I really wanted to switch to them but could never make it happen. If they've solved their stock issues, that's good to hear.
    - michaelmior 3y ago
      I don't think they have unfortunately which is one of the reasons I'm using the Caseta switches. I would love to switch myself too since the price point is similar, they use an open standard, and the controllable LED is a just a cool added feature.
- nucleardog 3y ago
  A good chunk of my z-wave hardware is from Zooz. I haven't tried any other brands, so I can't really compare or provide a solid "this is better" recommendation or anything. Mine are the older 700 series. I've got a mix of the "Zooz ZEN71" for places where I need to switch larger loads (e.g., bathroom light and fan, all my outdoor lights) and the "Zooz ZEN72" elsewhere as it supports dimming.

gregmac 3y ago

Yeah, same here. I just don't see the need for a "mechanical indicator" like the OP seems to be asking for, because you can tell by the state of the room. Mechanical switches aren't even reliable for this because of how 3-way switches work (their state doesn't indicate the state of the light). Unless you remember which are 3-way and which are single, you can't trust any of them. With smart switches in the same locations this is a non-issue. An interesting thing is switches where you can't see if they're on as easily, such as the outside front lights, are for the most part fully automated (based on timer/door/motion and/or camera object detection) and we basically never touch the switch at all. It's important to be consistent, though, since you technically can program the switches to do anything. In my house pressing up once turns the light on as you'd expect, but in some rooms the light will be less than 100% or have a warmer color temperature at night. Pressing twice turns on max brightness (or something similar, such as: 5000K color temp; also turning on the lights an adjacent room; turning on _all_ the backyard lights). I rarely use 3, 4 or 5-taps except for a couple special things (eg: 4x off on my office switch puts my PC to sleep; 3x on one of the basement switches activates a "party mode" my kid loves).

andsoitis 3y ago
> Yeah, same here. I just don't see the need for a "mechanical indicator" like the OP seems to be asking for, because you can tell by the state of the room. It is an aesthetic concern. If you have two light switches next to each other, they can get out if sync by being in different positions but representing the same state (light on or off). That would be very ugly.
- thinkmassive 3y ago
  Have you ever used a three-way light switch? Plus the momentary switches are always centered, they look fine next to traditional switches in either position.
- karlshea 3y ago
  I think people are asking why he needs a mechanical indicator because there are a bunch of switches available now that don't have one but also don't really look out of place.
- thunfischbrot 3y ago
  I solved this by using "Push-Button Switches": https://katalog.gira.de/en/datenblatt.html?ean=4010337126034&car=1 https://katalog.gira.de/en/datenblatt.html?ean=4010337126034... They look like a push-button, are therefore always "aligned", though the electrical switch alternates between open and closed.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  My apartment has stateless switches for the radio controlled lights. (I don't know the details of the system.) I've lived there for over 5 years, and I still regularly press the wrong switch where there are two or three next to each other.
- jgalt212 3y ago
  True. If you have a 3-way switch next to a 2-way switch, you get the same confusion.
- nucleardog 3y ago
  > If you have two light switches next to each other, they can get out if sync by being in different positions but representing the same state (light on or off). I have some of these: https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/collections/800-series-z-wave-long-range-devices/products/zooz-700-series-z-wave-plus-on-off-light-switch-zen71 https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/collections/800-series-z-wa... (Third photo shows a side view.) They can't be in different physical positions. They're momentary switches. When you press it up then release, it goes back to centered. The only indication of state on the switch is the (configurable/optional) little LED at the bottom of the switch. I have mine set so it's white if the switch is off (helps you find it in the dark), and off when the switch is on. So if you have any 3-way switches in your house (I do!), it's actually an improvement as far as your concerns.

makapuf 3y ago

None of my lamps have a set position for on or off since they're on a toggle switch.

euroderf 3y ago

> some relatively cheap z-wave switches. They're only momentary, but up is on and down is off. When they're off, I have them configured to show a small white light on the bottom. This sounds great. Can you provide a pointer or full search term to getting these ?

windexh8er 3y ago
Zwave Light Switch
michaelmior 3y ago
The Inovelli Red series is a popular choice for Z-Wave switches. They also make a Zigbee version with similar features. Personally, I have been using Lutron Caseta switches which use a proprietary protocol, but you can get local control and they've been incredibly solid.
- twisteriffic 3y ago
  The range and battery life on the remotes is unbelievable as well.
- lsaferite 3y ago
  Over the years, every time I've looked at the Inovelli switches they are always out of stock. I really wanted to switch to them but could never make it happen. If they've solved their stock issues, that's good to hear.
  - michaelmior 3y ago
    I don't think they have unfortunately which is one of the reasons I'm using the Caseta switches. I would love to switch myself too since the price point is similar, they use an open standard, and the controllable LED is a just a cool added feature.
nucleardog 3y ago
A good chunk of my z-wave hardware is from Zooz. I haven't tried any other brands, so I can't really compare or provide a solid "this is better" recommendation or anything. Mine are the older 700 series. I've got a mix of the "Zooz ZEN71" for places where I need to switch larger loads (e.g., bathroom light and fan, all my outdoor lights) and the "Zooz ZEN72" elsewhere as it supports dimming.