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My experience with Home Assistant has been quite similar to the author’s. I’m also a software engineer so the general lack of stability around device changes al

My experience with Home Assistant has been quite similar to the author’s. I’m also a software engineer so the general lack of stability around device changes always makes me feel like I’ve volunteered to pick up that 8-point ticket on the last Wednesday of the sprint. But when everything works, it’s such a cool experience. I hope Matter begins to make local-first a bigger priority as well. That’s a huge concern I’ve recently begun to develop. Also I still haven’t figured out how to combine a mechanical and digital solution. Like I want light switches that match my server state for my lights. If I change the switch via my phone, I want the switches to change as well so that the physical switch is always the true state of the light.

hughesjj 3y ago
Can some of the push button/toggle ones work for you?
CSSer 3y ago
It sounds like you want Lutron Casetas.
- xp84 3y ago
  The newest Casetas are called Diva, and are basically like rockers that are stateless (return to a neutral position after tappdiva, again you can't have a true state-perfect switch, unless it's motorized and to my knowledge nobody makes that.
  - karlshea 3y ago
    I have a couple of these and they're great, it feels (and looks) like a regular switch.
  - timthorn 3y ago
    There was a UK start-up a few years back that did make motorised light switches but they didn't stick around long. I'm blanking on the name, though.
    - timthorn 3y ago
      Here we go - it was Den Devices: https://automatedhome.co.uk/new-products/den-automation-launches-uk-smart-home-range-with-cool-self-moving-switches.html https://automatedhome.co.uk/new-products/den-automation-laun...
      - rkagerer 3y ago
        Awesome. Kind of a shame they didn't take off.
  - Y-bar 3y ago
    Couldn't on/off switches also be achieved with an electromagnet without the need for an actuating motor of some kind? - State A (on) - power the device and power the magnet so that the switch moves. - State B (off) - power off the device and the magnet, a spring moves the switch.
- surajrmal 3y ago
  I like lutron caseta, but I believe those do not fit the bill here. The light on the side may reflect the current light level, but the slider doesn't move. I had some levitron smart lights previously and while I wouldn't recommend them, they had two buttons instead of a physical slider to adjust brightness and avoid the problem altogether.
  - kbaker 3y ago
    We installed a Lutron Sunnata to replace a 3 way and dimmer. They are awesome, with a capacitive-touch LEDs bar graph replacing the slider. They feel really like the right solution. https://residential.lutron.com/us/en/stand-alone-controls/sunnata-touch-dimmer https://residential.lutron.com/us/en/stand-alone-controls/su...
squarefoot 3y ago
> I want light switches that match my server state for my lights. Not easy to do, short of using switches that can be operated through servos. However you could replace the switches with buttons and step relays that feed back their state to the server, in other words the server doesn't care about the switches or buttons anymore but only reads/writes the relays state.
nucleardog 3y ago
> Like I want light switches that match my server state for my lights. If I change the switch via my phone, I want the switches to change as well so that the physical switch is always the true state of the light. Like it's an absolute requirement that they show a different physical position when on or off? I've got some relatively cheap z-wave switches. They're only momentary, but up is on and down is off. When they're off, I have them configured to show a small white light on the bottom. So my indication of switch state is "small light = off, big light in the middle of the ceiling = on". The switches _can't_ be out of sync with their state because they are directly controlling the attached lights. If anything were to somehow get out of sync, it would be home assistant.
- gregmac 3y ago
  Yeah, same here. I just don't see the need for a "mechanical indicator" like the OP seems to be asking for, because you can tell by the state of the room. Mechanical switches aren't even reliable for this because of how 3-way switches work (their state doesn't indicate the state of the light). Unless you remember which are 3-way and which are single, you can't trust any of them. With smart switches in the same locations this is a non-issue. An interesting thing is switches where you can't see if they're on as easily, such as the outside front lights, are for the most part fully automated (based on timer/door/motion and/or camera object detection) and we basically never touch the switch at all. It's important to be consistent, though, since you technically can program the switches to do anything. In my house pressing up once turns the light on as you'd expect, but in some rooms the light will be less than 100% or have a warmer color temperature at night. Pressing twice turns on max brightness (or something similar, such as: 5000K color temp; also turning on the lights an adjacent room; turning on _all_ the backyard lights). I rarely use 3, 4 or 5-taps except for a couple special things (eg: 4x off on my office switch puts my PC to sleep; 3x on one of the basement switches activates a "party mode" my kid loves).
  - andsoitis 3y ago
    > Yeah, same here. I just don't see the need for a "mechanical indicator" like the OP seems to be asking for, because you can tell by the state of the room. It is an aesthetic concern. If you have two light switches next to each other, they can get out if sync by being in different positions but representing the same state (light on or off). That would be very ugly.
wkat4242 3y ago
Haha I like your description of the 8 point ticket. Updating HA always reminds me of what a friend used to say. "Software is like cathedrals. First you build it, then you pray". The post-update relief when everything actually keeps working for once is really great though.
- yoavm 3y ago
  I've been using a Home Assistant Blue for two years now. Always updating, never had a single issue. It's actually so smooth I don't even think before clicking "update". It seems like a much more stable installation method.
- Fnoord 3y ago
  If that is an issue then backups and snapshots are your friend. Even container can help you. And if you don't want to update, run it on Debian Stable.
Larrikin 3y ago
The visual indicator should be the light shining into your eyes, not the switch on the wall. If you can from some other location see the light switch you already know the state of the lights. If your automations are set up well you really should hardly be touching the light switches so they become more of something you only interact with for special reasons.
Thlom 3y ago
I bought a Zigbee dimmer switch. Even works directly with the Hue app (My attempts at hass has so far mostly ended in total chaos, so I've given up for now).
sguav 3y ago
> Also I still haven’t figured out how to combine a mechanical and digital solution. Like I want light switches that match my server state for my lights. If I change the switch via my phone, I want the switches to change as well so that the physical switch is always the true state of the light. For the lights that I want to "keep mechanically in sync" I replaced the switches with buttons and used a re-flashed (ESPhome) sonoff-mini which conveniently has a button input for the relay. Everything is synchronized no matter the operating interface.
shellfishgene 3y ago
> I hope Matter begins to make local-first a bigger priority as well. That’s a huge concern I’ve recently begun to develop. That would be nice, but in all other areas in tech that's exacly the opposite of what companies want. I haven't looked into matter too much, but I'm sceptical.
- bgentry 3y ago
  You should probably look into it then! I have numerous Matter window/door sensors and switchable outlets connected to both HASS and HomeKit and they're working very well. I've never used a vendor's app for any of them.
Fabricio20 3y ago
I mean if you don't really want _switches_... I use Sonoff's TX series, they are just a "touchscreen" light switch that lights up when its on. Can't get out of sync since the ring light is part of it being on or off. Don't shy away from the touchscreen aspect by the way, it's really sensitive. If you would rather have the lights control themselves (ex: rgb lights) you can always just replace your physical switch with something similar to the TX but that's just a button and then use automations on HA to have it tell the light what to do.
tass 3y ago
Apple’s HomeKit operates over local control, as I understand. For anything that isn’t zwave or zigbee, this has been a reliable way for me to choose devices which don’t require some outside service to control. HA supports HomeKit without requiring any Apple devices.
alias_neo 3y ago
> I hope Matter begins to make local-first a bigger priority as well. As of today, Matter is still basically junk. I recently bought some Matter smart plugs; I wanted the matter ones to test out Matter and see if it was worth investing more into since I have a SkyConnect in dual-mode. I paid _double_ for smart plugs with Matter support, only to find that when connected via matter they're just dumb switches; none of the advertised energy monitoring functionality works. When I asked around on the HA Discord channels about _why_, it turns out that the Matter spec doesn't yet support things like energy monitoring. Until the spec becomes actually useful, it's just a waste of money that will give you fewer features than the device might actually support.
eternityforest 3y ago
Matter doesn't seem to be talked about much anymore. I would not be surprised if something else catches up and takes over before it gets big, like Bluetooth mesh or something. Personally my ideal HA would just be if YoLink made their platform open source. Their hardware is cheap and actually works pretty much perfectly, the only thing missing is open local APIs.
- rkagerer 3y ago
  I've been really pleased with YoLink though I wouldn't call them perfect. Over time I get occasional alerts for transient disconnects, and their UI robustness could be improved (like the Android app screens where I make changes but those don't seem to "stick" to the device until I redo it a few times).

hughesjj 3y ago

Can some of the push button/toggle ones work for you?

CSSer 3y ago

It sounds like you want Lutron Casetas.

xp84 3y ago
The newest Casetas are called Diva, and are basically like rockers that are stateless (return to a neutral position after tappdiva, again you can't have a true state-perfect switch, unless it's motorized and to my knowledge nobody makes that.
- karlshea 3y ago
  I have a couple of these and they're great, it feels (and looks) like a regular switch.
- timthorn 3y ago
  There was a UK start-up a few years back that did make motorised light switches but they didn't stick around long. I'm blanking on the name, though.
  - timthorn 3y ago
    Here we go - it was Den Devices: https://automatedhome.co.uk/new-products/den-automation-launches-uk-smart-home-range-with-cool-self-moving-switches.html https://automatedhome.co.uk/new-products/den-automation-laun...
    - rkagerer 3y ago
      Awesome. Kind of a shame they didn't take off.
- Y-bar 3y ago
  Couldn't on/off switches also be achieved with an electromagnet without the need for an actuating motor of some kind? - State A (on) - power the device and power the magnet so that the switch moves. - State B (off) - power off the device and the magnet, a spring moves the switch.
surajrmal 3y ago
I like lutron caseta, but I believe those do not fit the bill here. The light on the side may reflect the current light level, but the slider doesn't move. I had some levitron smart lights previously and while I wouldn't recommend them, they had two buttons instead of a physical slider to adjust brightness and avoid the problem altogether.
- kbaker 3y ago
  We installed a Lutron Sunnata to replace a 3 way and dimmer. They are awesome, with a capacitive-touch LEDs bar graph replacing the slider. They feel really like the right solution. https://residential.lutron.com/us/en/stand-alone-controls/sunnata-touch-dimmer https://residential.lutron.com/us/en/stand-alone-controls/su...

squarefoot 3y ago

> I want light switches that match my server state for my lights. Not easy to do, short of using switches that can be operated through servos. However you could replace the switches with buttons and step relays that feed back their state to the server, in other words the server doesn't care about the switches or buttons anymore but only reads/writes the relays state.

nucleardog 3y ago

> Like I want light switches that match my server state for my lights. If I change the switch via my phone, I want the switches to change as well so that the physical switch is always the true state of the light. Like it's an absolute requirement that they show a different physical position when on or off? I've got some relatively cheap z-wave switches. They're only momentary, but up is on and down is off. When they're off, I have them configured to show a small white light on the bottom. So my indication of switch state is "small light = off, big light in the middle of the ceiling = on". The switches _can't_ be out of sync with their state because they are directly controlling the attached lights. If anything were to somehow get out of sync, it would be home assistant.

gregmac 3y ago
Yeah, same here. I just don't see the need for a "mechanical indicator" like the OP seems to be asking for, because you can tell by the state of the room. Mechanical switches aren't even reliable for this because of how 3-way switches work (their state doesn't indicate the state of the light). Unless you remember which are 3-way and which are single, you can't trust any of them. With smart switches in the same locations this is a non-issue. An interesting thing is switches where you can't see if they're on as easily, such as the outside front lights, are for the most part fully automated (based on timer/door/motion and/or camera object detection) and we basically never touch the switch at all. It's important to be consistent, though, since you technically can program the switches to do anything. In my house pressing up once turns the light on as you'd expect, but in some rooms the light will be less than 100% or have a warmer color temperature at night. Pressing twice turns on max brightness (or something similar, such as: 5000K color temp; also turning on the lights an adjacent room; turning on _all_ the backyard lights). I rarely use 3, 4 or 5-taps except for a couple special things (eg: 4x off on my office switch puts my PC to sleep; 3x on one of the basement switches activates a "party mode" my kid loves).
- andsoitis 3y ago
  > Yeah, same here. I just don't see the need for a "mechanical indicator" like the OP seems to be asking for, because you can tell by the state of the room. It is an aesthetic concern. If you have two light switches next to each other, they can get out if sync by being in different positions but representing the same state (light on or off). That would be very ugly.

wkat4242 3y ago

Haha I like your description of the 8 point ticket. Updating HA always reminds me of what a friend used to say. "Software is like cathedrals. First you build it, then you pray". The post-update relief when everything actually keeps working for once is really great though.

yoavm 3y ago
I've been using a Home Assistant Blue for two years now. Always updating, never had a single issue. It's actually so smooth I don't even think before clicking "update". It seems like a much more stable installation method.
Fnoord 3y ago
If that is an issue then backups and snapshots are your friend. Even container can help you. And if you don't want to update, run it on Debian Stable.

Larrikin 3y ago

The visual indicator should be the light shining into your eyes, not the switch on the wall. If you can from some other location see the light switch you already know the state of the lights. If your automations are set up well you really should hardly be touching the light switches so they become more of something you only interact with for special reasons.

Thlom 3y ago

I bought a Zigbee dimmer switch. Even works directly with the Hue app (My attempts at hass has so far mostly ended in total chaos, so I've given up for now).

sguav 3y ago

> Also I still haven’t figured out how to combine a mechanical and digital solution. Like I want light switches that match my server state for my lights. If I change the switch via my phone, I want the switches to change as well so that the physical switch is always the true state of the light. For the lights that I want to "keep mechanically in sync" I replaced the switches with buttons and used a re-flashed (ESPhome) sonoff-mini which conveniently has a button input for the relay. Everything is synchronized no matter the operating interface.

shellfishgene 3y ago

> I hope Matter begins to make local-first a bigger priority as well. That’s a huge concern I’ve recently begun to develop. That would be nice, but in all other areas in tech that's exacly the opposite of what companies want. I haven't looked into matter too much, but I'm sceptical.

bgentry 3y ago
You should probably look into it then! I have numerous Matter window/door sensors and switchable outlets connected to both HASS and HomeKit and they're working very well. I've never used a vendor's app for any of them.

Fabricio20 3y ago

I mean if you don't really want _switches_... I use Sonoff's TX series, they are just a "touchscreen" light switch that lights up when its on. Can't get out of sync since the ring light is part of it being on or off. Don't shy away from the touchscreen aspect by the way, it's really sensitive. If you would rather have the lights control themselves (ex: rgb lights) you can always just replace your physical switch with something similar to the TX but that's just a button and then use automations on HA to have it tell the light what to do.

tass 3y ago

Apple’s HomeKit operates over local control, as I understand. For anything that isn’t zwave or zigbee, this has been a reliable way for me to choose devices which don’t require some outside service to control. HA supports HomeKit without requiring any Apple devices.

alias_neo 3y ago

> I hope Matter begins to make local-first a bigger priority as well. As of today, Matter is still basically junk. I recently bought some Matter smart plugs; I wanted the matter ones to test out Matter and see if it was worth investing more into since I have a SkyConnect in dual-mode. I paid _double_ for smart plugs with Matter support, only to find that when connected via matter they're just dumb switches; none of the advertised energy monitoring functionality works. When I asked around on the HA Discord channels about _why_, it turns out that the Matter spec doesn't yet support things like energy monitoring. Until the spec becomes actually useful, it's just a waste of money that will give you fewer features than the device might actually support.

eternityforest 3y ago

Matter doesn't seem to be talked about much anymore. I would not be surprised if something else catches up and takes over before it gets big, like Bluetooth mesh or something. Personally my ideal HA would just be if YoLink made their platform open source. Their hardware is cheap and actually works pretty much perfectly, the only thing missing is open local APIs.

rkagerer 3y ago
I've been really pleased with YoLink though I wouldn't call them perfect. Over time I get occasional alerts for transient disconnects, and their UI robustness could be improved (like the Android app screens where I make changes but those don't seem to "stick" to the device until I redo it a few times).