4 ms·

> Actually, I could understand that you could say that US is an union of two countries because of this episode, but a union of 50, no way. How many, and which,

by anamax 15y ago

> Actually, I could understand that you could say that US is an union of two countries because of this episode, but a union of 50, no way. How many, and which, states have you lived in? Heck - if you live in CA, how much time have you spent outside LA/SF Bay area? The central valley (where I grew up) is very different, as are the sierra folk. And no, ski trips or summers at Tahoe don't count.

_delirium 15y ago
I've lived in a few, and I agree that, say, the central valley and LA/SF are very different. But I think SF and Boston, say, share a lot in common, enough to be roughly the same country, at least in the way that Paris and Bordeaux, or Oslo and Bergen are the same country (some cultural differences, but not completely foreign). So I would guess there are fewer than 50 really distinct social groups in the U.S.--- several urban social groups, several small-town groups, several rural ones, maybe 5-8 total.
- bane 15y ago
  I agree with this. I grew up in the mid-Atlantic of the U.S. and feel comfortable anywhere from D.C. up to say...Toronto. Similar enough culture, language, food, architecture, etc. that I don't feel out of place anywhere in that stretch. Go to North Carolina or Georgia? I may as well be in Greece for how at "home" I feel there. Similarly the stretch from SF to Vancouver (Canada) feels relatively homogeneous to me (as an outsider) but distinct from the stretch I grew up in. It's only similarity is the relative wealth. But everything looks and feels different. While San Simeon, CA on south feels like yet another distinct place. Texas is southern but very different than say Kentucky. And Colorado and surrounding have a distinct feel as well.
  - Iv 15y ago
    > Go to North Carolina or Georgia? I may as well be in Greece for how at "home" I feel there. But the language is the same, the newspapers are the same, the political parties are the same. Compare that to Europe where there are, what ? 23 languages for 27 countries, political parties specific to each and news sources totally different.
    - anamax 15y ago
      > But the language is the same, Umm, sort-of. I have relatives whose local dialect is almost incomprensible to me. (They can understand me because they can understand "TV American".) > Compare that to Europe where there are, what ? 23 languages for 27 countries How many of them have a significant number of people who are monolingual? To put it another way, how many languages do I need to know to talk to 95% of Europeans? > the newspapers are the same, No, they aren't. > the political parties are the same. Nope. They merely have the same names, and sometimes not even that. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Democratic%E2%80%93Farmer%E2%80%93Labor_Party http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Democratic%E2%80%93Fa... .) Yes, there is a national Democrat party, but there are also 50 state parties and they don't take orders. There are "national coalitions" that don't cover all states.
      - Iv 15y ago
        > How many of them have a significant number of people who are monolingual? To put it another way, how many languages do I need to know to talk to 95% of Europeans? You would be surprised. Half the people in France speak only French (and maybe one local dialect). And it is far from being the worst country. So with English, French, German and maybe Russian you would maybe get close to 80% but far away from 95% By "newspaper are the same" I meant that you have national newspaper that one can find everywhere. I didn't travel a lot in USA, but I remember that USA today was available everywhere I went to (mainly west coast I admit) I doubt it is the only newspaper in that case. Science, National Geographic are two publication that I believe must be nation wide. There is no EU-wide publication. By "same political parties", I mean that you know which is rep and which is dem. Which one will support your current president and which won't. Arguably, we begin to have a similar structure appearing in EU. It is recent and still approximate, but EU MPs now try to share some labels.
        waterlesscloud 15y ago
        There's a big difference between an Alabama Democrat and a Massachusetts Democrat. You certainly could not always count on them to vote the same way.
  - _delirium 15y ago
    Maybe it's because I've moved around too much (and also lived in Europe for a bit), but I don't actually find urban areas in the U.S. that tied to their geographical area. Atlanta is different from Los Angeles, sure, but in broad strokes they share a lot of similarities, certainly more than either one shares with Paris, Rome, Tokyo, or Copenhagen---or with the rural areas 100 miles away from each. Heck, Americans move around so much that most people I've met in urban areas are not "from" that state in the first place. Some of the friends I made in Atlanta were from New York City, others from San Francisco, others from Iowa. Some of the friends I made when I lived in the Bay Area had grown up in the Midwest. For my part, I grew up in a mixture of Chicago and Houston, but don't feel any more "at home" in either one than in the Bay Area or Atlanta.
    - bane 15y ago
      I agree. I think the urban areas in much of Europe are a much better reflection of their surrounding areas than those in the U.S. Atlanta for example really is different than surrounding Georgia. But I wouldn't say that Atlanta feels anything like Minneapolis for example. Also many of the European cities have such a different flavor than U.S. ones, how they're laid out for example, that going from Munich to Paris is a tremendously different experience. More than Atlanta to Minneapolis? Yeah I think so. But likewise Paris to Tokyo is even more of a difference than any other comparison above.
- anamax 15y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Nations_of_North_America http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Nations_of_North_Ameri... Not vouching, just citing. (I haven't read it.)

by anamax 15y ago

_delirium 15y ago

I've lived in a few, and I agree that, say, the central valley and LA/SF are very different. But I think SF and Boston, say, share a lot in common, enough to be roughly the same country, at least in the way that Paris and Bordeaux, or Oslo and Bergen are the same country (some cultural differences, but not completely foreign). So I would guess there are fewer than 50 really distinct social groups in the U.S.--- several urban social groups, several small-town groups, several rural ones, maybe 5-8 total.

bane 15y ago
I agree with this. I grew up in the mid-Atlantic of the U.S. and feel comfortable anywhere from D.C. up to say...Toronto. Similar enough culture, language, food, architecture, etc. that I don't feel out of place anywhere in that stretch. Go to North Carolina or Georgia? I may as well be in Greece for how at "home" I feel there. Similarly the stretch from SF to Vancouver (Canada) feels relatively homogeneous to me (as an outsider) but distinct from the stretch I grew up in. It's only similarity is the relative wealth. But everything looks and feels different. While San Simeon, CA on south feels like yet another distinct place. Texas is southern but very different than say Kentucky. And Colorado and surrounding have a distinct feel as well.
- Iv 15y ago
  > Go to North Carolina or Georgia? I may as well be in Greece for how at "home" I feel there. But the language is the same, the newspapers are the same, the political parties are the same. Compare that to Europe where there are, what ? 23 languages for 27 countries, political parties specific to each and news sources totally different.
  - anamax 15y ago
    > But the language is the same, Umm, sort-of. I have relatives whose local dialect is almost incomprensible to me. (They can understand me because they can understand "TV American".) > Compare that to Europe where there are, what ? 23 languages for 27 countries How many of them have a significant number of people who are monolingual? To put it another way, how many languages do I need to know to talk to 95% of Europeans? > the newspapers are the same, No, they aren't. > the political parties are the same. Nope. They merely have the same names, and sometimes not even that. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Democratic%E2%80%93Farmer%E2%80%93Labor_Party http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Democratic%E2%80%93Fa... .) Yes, there is a national Democrat party, but there are also 50 state parties and they don't take orders. There are "national coalitions" that don't cover all states.
    - Iv 15y ago
      > How many of them have a significant number of people who are monolingual? To put it another way, how many languages do I need to know to talk to 95% of Europeans? You would be surprised. Half the people in France speak only French (and maybe one local dialect). And it is far from being the worst country. So with English, French, German and maybe Russian you would maybe get close to 80% but far away from 95% By "newspaper are the same" I meant that you have national newspaper that one can find everywhere. I didn't travel a lot in USA, but I remember that USA today was available everywhere I went to (mainly west coast I admit) I doubt it is the only newspaper in that case. Science, National Geographic are two publication that I believe must be nation wide. There is no EU-wide publication. By "same political parties", I mean that you know which is rep and which is dem. Which one will support your current president and which won't. Arguably, we begin to have a similar structure appearing in EU. It is recent and still approximate, but EU MPs now try to share some labels.
      - waterlesscloud 15y ago
        There's a big difference between an Alabama Democrat and a Massachusetts Democrat. You certainly could not always count on them to vote the same way.
- _delirium 15y ago
  Maybe it's because I've moved around too much (and also lived in Europe for a bit), but I don't actually find urban areas in the U.S. that tied to their geographical area. Atlanta is different from Los Angeles, sure, but in broad strokes they share a lot of similarities, certainly more than either one shares with Paris, Rome, Tokyo, or Copenhagen---or with the rural areas 100 miles away from each. Heck, Americans move around so much that most people I've met in urban areas are not "from" that state in the first place. Some of the friends I made in Atlanta were from New York City, others from San Francisco, others from Iowa. Some of the friends I made when I lived in the Bay Area had grown up in the Midwest. For my part, I grew up in a mixture of Chicago and Houston, but don't feel any more "at home" in either one than in the Bay Area or Atlanta.
  - bane 15y ago
    I agree. I think the urban areas in much of Europe are a much better reflection of their surrounding areas than those in the U.S. Atlanta for example really is different than surrounding Georgia. But I wouldn't say that Atlanta feels anything like Minneapolis for example. Also many of the European cities have such a different flavor than U.S. ones, how they're laid out for example, that going from Munich to Paris is a tremendously different experience. More than Atlanta to Minneapolis? Yeah I think so. But likewise Paris to Tokyo is even more of a difference than any other comparison above.
anamax 15y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Nations_of_North_America http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Nations_of_North_Ameri... Not vouching, just citing. (I haven't read it.)