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While it's good for the power grid to be mostly renewable energy and it may be a great milestone, let's not forget that without conversion of vehicles to renewa

by dheera 3y ago

While it's good for the power grid to be mostly renewable energy and it may be a great milestone, let's not forget that without conversion of vehicles to renewable energy Brazil is still running its total energy requirements mostly on fossil fuels.

gchamonlive 3y ago
That is untrue. 27% of gas is ethanol, and virtually all cars run on both gas and ethanol. Trucks use diesel, sure, but the amount of cars running on ethanol is not negligible. So while you would still need to renew the automotive fleet to electric vehicles to tap into that, Brazil is already using renewable fuel sources for cars. Not to mention that converting all cars to electricity will put more pressure on the electric distribution infrastructure which in itself will require more investments and will cause environmental impact invariably.
- adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
  ethanol produces more emissions than regular gas. the only thing ethanol is good for is as a farming subsidy.
  - cma 3y ago
    Corn ethanol end to end does, but does sugarcane ethanol in the tropics?
  - kurthr 3y ago
    Generally, that is true BUT... In Brazil there is a huge manufacture of sugar with excess baggasse that is used to power sugar extraction/drying and provide heat for alcohol distillation. There is a related industry of extracting leftover sugars, fermenting them, and making alcohol in rural agricultural regions, where the infrastructure for gasoline and diesel didn't exist 20-30 years ago. As a result, there is a lot of infrastructure for distributing locally produced 95% alcohol for transport (and you need to have specific gravity measured at the pump!). Unlike fertilized corn/grain alcohol from the midwest, this is not subsidized and still less expensive that gasoline in many parts of rural Brazil.
    - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
      Oh cool! I didn't know that. Thank you
    - dheera 3y ago
      The world also eats way way too much sugar and all that sugar production isn't necessary.
  - Qem 3y ago
    Corn ethanol, sure. But in Brazil most ethanol comes from sugarcane, the has much larger yields than corn. There's some biodiesel too, but IIRC it is problematic, like corn ethanol.
cassianoleal 3y ago
I don't know the numbers but I don't doubt diesel for trucks makes up a lot and perhaps most of the energy consumption in the country. Thankfully, the federal government seems to be taking notice and railways are a priority for the new PAC [0] (_Programa de Aceleração do Crescimento_, or program for growth acceleration). It's not much but it's a start. [0] https://www.gov.br/transportes/pt-br/assuntos/noticias/2024/01/novo-pac-garante-recursos-para-o-transporte-ferroviario-e-acelera-retomada-do-setor-no-brasil https://www.gov.br/transportes/pt-br/assuntos/noticias/2024/...

by dheera 3y ago

gchamonlive 3y ago

That is untrue. 27% of gas is ethanol, and virtually all cars run on both gas and ethanol. Trucks use diesel, sure, but the amount of cars running on ethanol is not negligible. So while you would still need to renew the automotive fleet to electric vehicles to tap into that, Brazil is already using renewable fuel sources for cars. Not to mention that converting all cars to electricity will put more pressure on the electric distribution infrastructure which in itself will require more investments and will cause environmental impact invariably.

adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
ethanol produces more emissions than regular gas. the only thing ethanol is good for is as a farming subsidy.
- cma 3y ago
  Corn ethanol end to end does, but does sugarcane ethanol in the tropics?
- kurthr 3y ago
  Generally, that is true BUT... In Brazil there is a huge manufacture of sugar with excess baggasse that is used to power sugar extraction/drying and provide heat for alcohol distillation. There is a related industry of extracting leftover sugars, fermenting them, and making alcohol in rural agricultural regions, where the infrastructure for gasoline and diesel didn't exist 20-30 years ago. As a result, there is a lot of infrastructure for distributing locally produced 95% alcohol for transport (and you need to have specific gravity measured at the pump!). Unlike fertilized corn/grain alcohol from the midwest, this is not subsidized and still less expensive that gasoline in many parts of rural Brazil.
  - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
    Oh cool! I didn't know that. Thank you
  - dheera 3y ago
    The world also eats way way too much sugar and all that sugar production isn't necessary.
- Qem 3y ago
  Corn ethanol, sure. But in Brazil most ethanol comes from sugarcane, the has much larger yields than corn. There's some biodiesel too, but IIRC it is problematic, like corn ethanol.

cassianoleal 3y ago

I don't know the numbers but I don't doubt diesel for trucks makes up a lot and perhaps most of the energy consumption in the country. Thankfully, the federal government seems to be taking notice and railways are a priority for the new PAC [0] (_Programa de Aceleração do Crescimento_, or program for growth acceleration). It's not much but it's a start. [0] https://www.gov.br/transportes/pt-br/assuntos/noticias/2024/01/novo-pac-garante-recursos-para-o-transporte-ferroviario-e-acelera-retomada-do-setor-no-brasil https://www.gov.br/transportes/pt-br/assuntos/noticias/2024/...