5 ms·

His argument doesn't really hinge on states. He's arguing that the there's a hilarious geographical disparity going on, in that big bits of rural backwater Amer

His argument doesn't really hinge on states. He's arguing that the there's a hilarious geographical disparity going on, in that big bits of rural backwater America is nothing like the America people like to believe in. It's like how if you took Canada, with our pretty good (I like to think so) health care and general infrastructure, and more or less respectable indicators of health and safety.... and then decided to just look at our reserves. Huge WTF. Natives are 1/30th of the Canadian population (so significant, but not huge), and their average life expectancy is ~10 years less than the national average. How does this happen? Situations like this shows that it IS important to consider internal divisions like this. If the native population in Canada happened to be doubled or something, then you would run in all sorts of problems trying to improve out overall health care without addressing specific issues regarding why the native population appears to have such poor outcomes.

JoeAltmaier 14y ago
Population density may explain the whole fabricated issue. Where medical care is hours away and expensive to reach, life expectancy drops. Surprise. Also low-density population means smaller sample sizes thus larger error. Again, surprise.
- thejteam 14y ago
  This is a good point. Every year in various parts of Appalachia there are health festivals were doctors come and volunteer their time to give free medical care of various kinds, from eye exams to cancer screenings. This is intended for the poor and uninsured, but around 1/3 of the people who attend have health insurance that would pay for the exams. They still don't have real access to healthcare, though, because it would take over 3 hours each way to get to the appointment. Even in the semi-rural area where I live, if I needed heart surgery, the local cardiologists won't do the surgery. They would send me up the road to DC, two hours away, like they did with my father-in-law. And I live in a county with a high median income.
- planetguy 14y ago
  Except this is the map of population density: http://www.instantpatientnewsletter.com/images/USA-2000-population-density.gif http://www.instantpatientnewsletter.com/images/USA-2000-popu... which looks very much unlike the map of life expectancy. The truly low-population areas of the US (the non-coastal western half, the tip of Maine, and the whole of Alaska (where medical care is truly remote) seem to have fairly long lifespans. The South, where lifespans are short, is mostly fairly densely populated. A map which correlates much better with the lifespan map would be this one http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2lW15AgGThE/S_7yokwe3zI/AAAAAAAAABc/96BUvJ3vdEs/s1600/black.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2lW15AgGThE/S_7yokwe3zI/AAAAAAAAAB... showing the percentage of black people in each county. It's still not a perfect match, though, and it's clearly not just about race because the average lifespan for a black man in the US is 75 and for a white man 79; a much smaller disparity than the county-by-county disparity we're looking at there. If the men in your county are dropping dead at an average age of 66, it's not just about health care, it's gotta be some combination of: 1. Widespread substance abuse or alcoholism, and 2. Serious widespread obesity. Come to think of it, we can probably find a map for the latter too; here it is: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/11/24/business/economy/obesity.jpg http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/11/24/business/econ... I love southern food and all, but it should come as no surprise that if you eat fried chicken, biscuits and gravy every day for breakfast you're gonna wind up dead.
  - JoeAltmaier 14y ago
    Population density doesn't account for geography and infrastructure (roads). That's the healthcare delivery hotspot. Is there a map for that? Further, culture determines willingness to USE available healthcare. Southerners have a culture of independence. Men are reluctant to complain about health anyway; compound that with stubbornness and phobias about large institutions. You can even argue its not a Problem than some folks have lower life expectancies; they chose that lifestyle. God bless America, they're allowed to do that.
  - waterlesscloud 14y ago
    The population density map is misleading in this context. In the southwest there are vast stretches where nobody lives, dropping population density in a distorted way. In the southeast, there are vast stretches of lightly-populated land. These are not at all the same thing in this context.

JoeAltmaier 14y ago

Population density may explain the whole fabricated issue. Where medical care is hours away and expensive to reach, life expectancy drops. Surprise. Also low-density population means smaller sample sizes thus larger error. Again, surprise.

thejteam 14y ago
This is a good point. Every year in various parts of Appalachia there are health festivals were doctors come and volunteer their time to give free medical care of various kinds, from eye exams to cancer screenings. This is intended for the poor and uninsured, but around 1/3 of the people who attend have health insurance that would pay for the exams. They still don't have real access to healthcare, though, because it would take over 3 hours each way to get to the appointment. Even in the semi-rural area where I live, if I needed heart surgery, the local cardiologists won't do the surgery. They would send me up the road to DC, two hours away, like they did with my father-in-law. And I live in a county with a high median income.
planetguy 14y ago
Except this is the map of population density: http://www.instantpatientnewsletter.com/images/USA-2000-population-density.gif http://www.instantpatientnewsletter.com/images/USA-2000-popu... which looks very much unlike the map of life expectancy. The truly low-population areas of the US (the non-coastal western half, the tip of Maine, and the whole of Alaska (where medical care is truly remote) seem to have fairly long lifespans. The South, where lifespans are short, is mostly fairly densely populated. A map which correlates much better with the lifespan map would be this one http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2lW15AgGThE/S_7yokwe3zI/AAAAAAAAABc/96BUvJ3vdEs/s1600/black.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2lW15AgGThE/S_7yokwe3zI/AAAAAAAAAB... showing the percentage of black people in each county. It's still not a perfect match, though, and it's clearly not just about race because the average lifespan for a black man in the US is 75 and for a white man 79; a much smaller disparity than the county-by-county disparity we're looking at there. If the men in your county are dropping dead at an average age of 66, it's not just about health care, it's gotta be some combination of: 1. Widespread substance abuse or alcoholism, and 2. Serious widespread obesity. Come to think of it, we can probably find a map for the latter too; here it is: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/11/24/business/economy/obesity.jpg http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/11/24/business/econ... I love southern food and all, but it should come as no surprise that if you eat fried chicken, biscuits and gravy every day for breakfast you're gonna wind up dead.
- JoeAltmaier 14y ago
  Population density doesn't account for geography and infrastructure (roads). That's the healthcare delivery hotspot. Is there a map for that? Further, culture determines willingness to USE available healthcare. Southerners have a culture of independence. Men are reluctant to complain about health anyway; compound that with stubbornness and phobias about large institutions. You can even argue its not a Problem than some folks have lower life expectancies; they chose that lifestyle. God bless America, they're allowed to do that.
- waterlesscloud 14y ago
  The population density map is misleading in this context. In the southwest there are vast stretches where nobody lives, dropping population density in a distorted way. In the southeast, there are vast stretches of lightly-populated land. These are not at all the same thing in this context.