3 ms·

Why? What benefit and cost is there to moving? I don't think there is any benefit, and there is massive cost to moving for any company, especially one that is

Why? What benefit and cost is there to moving? I don't think there is any benefit, and there is massive cost to moving for any company, especially one that is built on a highly specialized labor force that doesn't want to move. At least, that's my best reading of this article's interpretation of the law's impact.

s3r3nity 3y ago
> there is massive cost to moving for any company, especially one that is built on a highly specialized labor force that doesn't want to move. California is banking way too hard on people who want to work for companies that do not want to pay them enough to live there, do not want to pay them to work remotely, actively campaign against building more housing, and actively support immigration policies that continue to push down the wages of these individuals as well as make this "specialized" labor force less "specialized." You would assume that there's a limit to what both the workers and the businesses are willing to put up with.
- corethree 3y ago
  I don't think he undertands people are more and more hating CA, both inside and outside of the state.
- epistasis 3y ago
  This is for the employees that do not get paid enough to live in California, sure. But those employees are not the ones that caused OpenAI to start and headquarter in San Francisco. Its started there becuase of the employees that do get paid enough to live in the state comfortably, and benefit massively from the aggregation of capital and experience in the Bay Area. Perhaps somebody else can do the same elsewhere! Which would be interesting to see. California treats anybody with less than several million in net worth and less than $400k/year in household income absolutely terribly. But that's a far bigger impact than this proposed AI legislation.
corethree 3y ago
Same reason why Tesla moved and why tons of people are moving out of CA. There's a huge benefit. Also don't think that this workforce is exclusive to CA. AI is easy to learn, it's not quantum physics.
- nine_k 3y ago
  If the company just keeps paying the Californian salary but offers relocation to e.g Texas, it may be a significant direct benefit for the employees, worth the move. Just compare: https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/city-life/san-francisco-ca https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/city-li... https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/city-life/austin-tx https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/city-li...
- kevingadd 3y ago
  Does Tesla pay any state or federal taxes? From my understanding, their federal tax bill at least was $0 in 2022. If the company was operating in CA and paying little or no taxes, it may have been a net drain on the state.
- epistasis 3y ago
  Tesla only moved their headquarters, it was a PR move. The people leaving California don't really want to leave, they are just being forced out by high costs. Those who have high incomes and can afford housing, like all those OpenAI employees, are staying. OpenAI isn't looking for just another person that picked up AI on a whim, they are looking for people that are driving the field forward so that OpenAI stays at the very forefront. These sorts of people could learn quantum physics easily, and many probably have in their undergraduate (or graduate) degrees.
  - corethree 3y ago
    No way. The people at the forefront of AI, most of them will have a much harder time learning quantum physics. Yes ML is hard but it's nowhere near QE, theoretical math or physics. The reason is simply because ML is incomplete and thus right now is more art then science. We only understand these neural networks from the perspective of an analogy. The curve fitting analogy. Its nowhere near something like general relativity where even an analogy doesn't convey full understanding.
riku_iki 3y ago
they can do some IP transfer: engineers writing code in CA, but IP/servers/service/training/data is in Japan (AI friendly).

s3r3nity 3y ago

> there is massive cost to moving for any company, especially one that is built on a highly specialized labor force that doesn't want to move. California is banking way too hard on people who want to work for companies that do not want to pay them enough to live there, do not want to pay them to work remotely, actively campaign against building more housing, and actively support immigration policies that continue to push down the wages of these individuals as well as make this "specialized" labor force less "specialized." You would assume that there's a limit to what both the workers and the businesses are willing to put up with.

corethree 3y ago
I don't think he undertands people are more and more hating CA, both inside and outside of the state.
epistasis 3y ago
This is for the employees that do not get paid enough to live in California, sure. But those employees are not the ones that caused OpenAI to start and headquarter in San Francisco. Its started there becuase of the employees that do get paid enough to live in the state comfortably, and benefit massively from the aggregation of capital and experience in the Bay Area. Perhaps somebody else can do the same elsewhere! Which would be interesting to see. California treats anybody with less than several million in net worth and less than $400k/year in household income absolutely terribly. But that's a far bigger impact than this proposed AI legislation.

corethree 3y ago

Same reason why Tesla moved and why tons of people are moving out of CA. There's a huge benefit. Also don't think that this workforce is exclusive to CA. AI is easy to learn, it's not quantum physics.

nine_k 3y ago
If the company just keeps paying the Californian salary but offers relocation to e.g Texas, it may be a significant direct benefit for the employees, worth the move. Just compare: https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/city-life/san-francisco-ca https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/city-li... https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/city-life/austin-tx https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-living-calculator/city-li...
kevingadd 3y ago
Does Tesla pay any state or federal taxes? From my understanding, their federal tax bill at least was $0 in 2022. If the company was operating in CA and paying little or no taxes, it may have been a net drain on the state.
epistasis 3y ago
Tesla only moved their headquarters, it was a PR move. The people leaving California don't really want to leave, they are just being forced out by high costs. Those who have high incomes and can afford housing, like all those OpenAI employees, are staying. OpenAI isn't looking for just another person that picked up AI on a whim, they are looking for people that are driving the field forward so that OpenAI stays at the very forefront. These sorts of people could learn quantum physics easily, and many probably have in their undergraduate (or graduate) degrees.
- corethree 3y ago
  No way. The people at the forefront of AI, most of them will have a much harder time learning quantum physics. Yes ML is hard but it's nowhere near QE, theoretical math or physics. The reason is simply because ML is incomplete and thus right now is more art then science. We only understand these neural networks from the perspective of an analogy. The curve fitting analogy. Its nowhere near something like general relativity where even an analogy doesn't convey full understanding.

riku_iki 3y ago

they can do some IP transfer: engineers writing code in CA, but IP/servers/service/training/data is in Japan (AI friendly).