14 ms·

I don't think I've ever met anybody who thought America's health care system was better than that of many/most Europea countries - certainly not of any fellow E

by corin_ 15y ago

I don't think I've ever met anybody who thought America's health care system was better than that of many/most Europea countries - certainly not of any fellow English/Europeans I know, but also no Americans I know and have discussed it with.

arethuza 15y ago
I guess it depends what you mean by "best" - if the ability to pay is not a factor (i.e. you are very wealthy) then I suspect the absolute best care is probably available in the US. However, in the UK we went for the option of having pretty good, but perhaps not the absolute best, available to everyone, free at the point of delivery, regardless of wealth. With the option to pay for private care if you want it - either in the UK or abroad. Personally, I think this is a pretty good compromise.
- corin_ 15y ago
  In my book, the fact that the US healthcare system excludes people who can't afford it automatically drops it to bottom of the list, regardless of how amazing it might be for the rich.
  - JoeAltmaier 15y ago
    Excludes is an extreme view. Anybody with the wit to stand in line can get free healthcare at an emergency room or local hospital. I value living in a place where I can work harder to get better things for my family. Or work less hard and coast, my choice. Making money is not a sport or game in America. Its real, its important, its meaningful and it motivates millions of us to work hard and smart. I can pull out my gold card and get to the head of the line for a heart transplant, sure. That's not a failure, thats one of the strengths of a capitalist/free market country. It can be cruel, but life is cruel and honestly there is no 'fair' way to ration such healthcare. If you tried, the 'black market' (read: free market) would and does compensate anyway. The free market motivates me. Some hunky-dory view of the world as full of free services for everybody does not.
    - corin_ 15y ago
      Countries with free health care for everybody can still offer plenty of incentives for making money, I don't think anyone would argue the UK isn't a capitalist country, and if you came to live here I'm confident that the NHS wouldn't be enough to make you stop caring about wealth. I'm not in favour of communism, but as far as I'm concerned, medical care should be considered a right not a priviledge - there's really no benefit to denying it for the poor. (For the record, I fit into the group of people who could easily affordto go private with Bupa here in the UK, and I'm far happier paying more in taxes to subsidise the NHS.)
      - arethuza 15y ago
        I would urge caution when using the terms "free" when discussing the NHS in a context like HN - I know you mean "free at the point of delivery" when you say "free" but many people won't! :-)
        corin_ 15y ago
        Obviously it has to be paid for, and I did end with the words "paying more in taxes to subsidise the NHS", but it's not as simple as paying for in advance, because people who don't make enough money to pay taxes, the unemployed, or people who need healthcare that costs more than the taxes they have paid do get it free.
      - javert 15y ago
        The UK is not a capitalist country in the proper sense of the term, it's a mixed economy. I believe keeping what you earn is a right. You believe free medical care is a right. Not mutually compatible. Glad I don't live in the same country as you.
        corin_ 15y ago
        Is there any true capitalist country then? Where do you live that you don't have to pay any taxes?

by corin_ 15y ago

arethuza 15y ago

I guess it depends what you mean by "best" - if the ability to pay is not a factor (i.e. you are very wealthy) then I suspect the absolute best care is probably available in the US. However, in the UK we went for the option of having pretty good, but perhaps not the absolute best, available to everyone, free at the point of delivery, regardless of wealth. With the option to pay for private care if you want it - either in the UK or abroad. Personally, I think this is a pretty good compromise.

corin_ 15y ago
In my book, the fact that the US healthcare system excludes people who can't afford it automatically drops it to bottom of the list, regardless of how amazing it might be for the rich.
- JoeAltmaier 15y ago
  Excludes is an extreme view. Anybody with the wit to stand in line can get free healthcare at an emergency room or local hospital. I value living in a place where I can work harder to get better things for my family. Or work less hard and coast, my choice. Making money is not a sport or game in America. Its real, its important, its meaningful and it motivates millions of us to work hard and smart. I can pull out my gold card and get to the head of the line for a heart transplant, sure. That's not a failure, thats one of the strengths of a capitalist/free market country. It can be cruel, but life is cruel and honestly there is no 'fair' way to ration such healthcare. If you tried, the 'black market' (read: free market) would and does compensate anyway. The free market motivates me. Some hunky-dory view of the world as full of free services for everybody does not.
  - corin_ 15y ago
    Countries with free health care for everybody can still offer plenty of incentives for making money, I don't think anyone would argue the UK isn't a capitalist country, and if you came to live here I'm confident that the NHS wouldn't be enough to make you stop caring about wealth. I'm not in favour of communism, but as far as I'm concerned, medical care should be considered a right not a priviledge - there's really no benefit to denying it for the poor. (For the record, I fit into the group of people who could easily affordto go private with Bupa here in the UK, and I'm far happier paying more in taxes to subsidise the NHS.)
    - arethuza 15y ago
      I would urge caution when using the terms "free" when discussing the NHS in a context like HN - I know you mean "free at the point of delivery" when you say "free" but many people won't! :-)
      - corin_ 15y ago
        Obviously it has to be paid for, and I did end with the words "paying more in taxes to subsidise the NHS", but it's not as simple as paying for in advance, because people who don't make enough money to pay taxes, the unemployed, or people who need healthcare that costs more than the taxes they have paid do get it free.
    - javert 15y ago
      The UK is not a capitalist country in the proper sense of the term, it's a mixed economy. I believe keeping what you earn is a right. You believe free medical care is a right. Not mutually compatible. Glad I don't live in the same country as you.
      - corin_ 15y ago
        Is there any true capitalist country then? Where do you live that you don't have to pay any taxes?