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EDIT: this was largely just to strengthen one of your points. Every single time something becomes big, the hardcore early fans of that thing will complain abou

EDIT: this was largely just to strengthen one of your points. Every single time something becomes big, the hardcore early fans of that thing will complain about the change. This used to happen with bands. Early die hard fans enjoyed having their own tribe or clique built around the band, and then when the band became too successful they'd say that the band "sold out" and that the newfound fans aren't really fans and so on. This happened with Linux where many people say Linux isn't fun anymore, or they lament that everything changed. I was an early Linux user, but I find that Linux is better than ever and I'm thankful I don't need to configure X anymore. People of the early internet were in their own little clique, and then the entire world jumped in and they lost "their place." They will always lament this change, and they will always say it used to be better. Humans are tribal and they forms tribes around anything and everything. Anytime their tribe is displaced they will become resentful even if that displacement makes the thing their tribe formed around better in every possible way. For me, I never had a solid sense of "tribal belonging" and therefore never really cared about these things, but I do understand the impulse as I get very vivid and strong experiences of it at sporting events, concerts, and so on. I suppose the strongest sense of tribalism I feel consistently is that of being a contrarian by impulse, and I feel some kind of kindred spirit with other contrarians... so maybe take everything I've said here with a grain or pound of salt.

JohnFen 3y ago
I agree, tribalism of this nature has a huge effect. With the internet, though, I think there's another factor that reduces its "fun level" -- the internet has also shifted to being a heavily commercialized environment, and commercialization has a very strong anti-fun effect.
- kodt 3y ago
  Also the size of the platforms have an effect. If you are on Twitter, even if you mostly interact with people within a select niche, everything is essentially public and anyone can see it or come in and spoil the party so to speak. Twitter / Facebook / itself has a far wider reach than the niche forums or IRC channels of the past, so it is very easy for things to go off the rails with commenters outside of that niche coming in angry about something or changing the conversation etc.. this is largely true on Reddit now as well. The userbase is too broad so it loses that shared sense of community, this leads to misunderstandings, different values, and more arguments. Thus necessitating stricter rules / bans etc.. which can also put a damper on fun.
Thuggery 3y ago
Humans may be tribal, but the universe is also entropic. Things decay in quality over time, and the only answer to this is cyclical rebirth. The analogy of music here is telling because in fact the vast majority of bands are only truly good for an album or two in a small band of time, maybe even for just a song. People would be objectively right to say punk isn't what it was in the 80s in certain places like the UK. Things really do sometimes get worse, or at least not stay the same style and quality forever. The repugnant conclusion alone pretty much guarantees niche things that are "good" to the niche that then get super popular and commercialized trend towards a worse for everyone steady state over time.

JohnFen 3y ago

I agree, tribalism of this nature has a huge effect. With the internet, though, I think there's another factor that reduces its "fun level" -- the internet has also shifted to being a heavily commercialized environment, and commercialization has a very strong anti-fun effect.

kodt 3y ago
Also the size of the platforms have an effect. If you are on Twitter, even if you mostly interact with people within a select niche, everything is essentially public and anyone can see it or come in and spoil the party so to speak. Twitter / Facebook / itself has a far wider reach than the niche forums or IRC channels of the past, so it is very easy for things to go off the rails with commenters outside of that niche coming in angry about something or changing the conversation etc.. this is largely true on Reddit now as well. The userbase is too broad so it loses that shared sense of community, this leads to misunderstandings, different values, and more arguments. Thus necessitating stricter rules / bans etc.. which can also put a damper on fun.

Thuggery 3y ago

Humans may be tribal, but the universe is also entropic. Things decay in quality over time, and the only answer to this is cyclical rebirth. The analogy of music here is telling because in fact the vast majority of bands are only truly good for an album or two in a small band of time, maybe even for just a song. People would be objectively right to say punk isn't what it was in the 80s in certain places like the UK. Things really do sometimes get worse, or at least not stay the same style and quality forever. The repugnant conclusion alone pretty much guarantees niche things that are "good" to the niche that then get super popular and commercialized trend towards a worse for everyone steady state over time.