3 ms·

> obviously a high risk situation. Yes, that's how a police state justifies the primacy of the needs of police over the rest of the civilian population. We kn

> obviously a high risk situation. Yes, that's how a police state justifies the primacy of the needs of police over the rest of the civilian population. We know executing search warrants like this are risky, because people have died in these sorts of raids, and flash grenades have severely injured babies like https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/supreme-court-gave-police-cover-raids-gone-wrong-rcna135100 https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/supreme-court-ga... or https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-toddler-georgia/toddler-badly-burned-by-police-device-during-georgia-drug-raid-idUSKBN0EA1PY20140530/ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-toddler-georgia/toddl... in Atlanta. Including on raids that were sent to the wrong address, or where the person they were looking for was not home. We know people are woken up, surprised, think they are being robbed by an armed gang and shot to defend themselves, only to be killed by the police. And we know the police exaggerate and hype up the danger level, to justify the use of drastic techniques which are dangerous to the people being investigated. In https://www.wkrg.com/mobile-county/family-of-teen-killed-during-mobile-police-pre-dawn-swat-raid-sees-body-camera-video/ https://www.wkrg.com/mobile-county/family-of-teen-killed-dur... the police did a surprise raid at 5:30am. A 16-year old pointed a laser-sighted handgun at the officers, likely thinking they were criminals attacking, and the cops shot and killed him. To make it worse, the person they were seeking wasn't there. To make it even more worse, person they were seeking was later arrested on a marijuana warrant after turning himself in. We know the police ALWAYS justify the tactics used in their early morning raid as "To minimize the danger to the officers executing the search", and there's no way to refute them because they always argue it could have been worse. Why should we believe the police in Georgia were any more correct in their assessment? Where is their experimental evidence which supports pre-dawn raids over other approaches, like even a 9am raid? Why should we believe there was no other reasonable way to conduct the raid which would have been just as safe for the police while showing much more respect to the people being raided? Why should we trust what they say when we know there's a long history of them exaggerating the danger?

philwelch 3y ago
I don't think every search warrant needs to be executed with a pre-dawn raid. I do think that these measures are called for when investigating a domestic terror group with an avowed animosity towards law enforcement. The old adage about safety regulations being written in blood is also true for law enforcement procedures, and while I agree these measures are sometimes excessive, I don't think it's excessive in cases like this.
- eesmith 3y ago
  I never said you did. I questioned how you can tell if the cops are telling the truth for this case when you know the cops have a long history of exaggerating the danger they face, and have long used identical tactics on cases which did not involve domestic terrorism (like a marijuana warrant). Experience tells us these regulations are not being written with the blood of innocent babies in mind, because it's easy to find news reports where babies were injured by flash grenades in early morning raids, when you would think the regulations should change after the first one .. or three. Nor is experience written with the blood the other residents of these households, like the death of Breonna Taylor during a midnight raid when her boyfriend thought the police were robbers, and the actual suspect was her ex-boyfriend who hadn't been there for a long time. Why should it change when the officers involved face very few consequences for their actions? No, it's only written with blood - often imaginary - of the police in mind, because they are the ones who write the regulations. Plus, they face almost no consequences for fabricating the severity of the dangers they face. Plus, they get more funding if they exaggerate the danger - a "safe" warrant execution justifies that that amount of force was needed to keep things safe, so we need to keep pouring money into our militarized police force.

philwelch 3y ago

I don't think every search warrant needs to be executed with a pre-dawn raid. I do think that these measures are called for when investigating a domestic terror group with an avowed animosity towards law enforcement. The old adage about safety regulations being written in blood is also true for law enforcement procedures, and while I agree these measures are sometimes excessive, I don't think it's excessive in cases like this.

eesmith 3y ago
I never said you did. I questioned how you can tell if the cops are telling the truth for this case when you know the cops have a long history of exaggerating the danger they face, and have long used identical tactics on cases which did not involve domestic terrorism (like a marijuana warrant). Experience tells us these regulations are not being written with the blood of innocent babies in mind, because it's easy to find news reports where babies were injured by flash grenades in early morning raids, when you would think the regulations should change after the first one .. or three. Nor is experience written with the blood the other residents of these households, like the death of Breonna Taylor during a midnight raid when her boyfriend thought the police were robbers, and the actual suspect was her ex-boyfriend who hadn't been there for a long time. Why should it change when the officers involved face very few consequences for their actions? No, it's only written with blood - often imaginary - of the police in mind, because they are the ones who write the regulations. Plus, they face almost no consequences for fabricating the severity of the dangers they face. Plus, they get more funding if they exaggerate the danger - a "safe" warrant execution justifies that that amount of force was needed to keep things safe, so we need to keep pouring money into our militarized police force.