7 ms·

From the article: >> There are numerous forms of wage theft, from employers not compensating workers for time worked, violating minimum wage and overtime laws,

From the article: >> There are numerous forms of wage theft, from employers not compensating workers for time worked, violating minimum wage and overtime laws, misclassifying employees as independent contractors, not providing legally required meal breaks, confiscating worker tips, or illegally taking deductions from worker wages. Yeah, one of those isn't like the others. I know unions and the tax people hate it, but some people are perfectly happy to be independent contractors. Having said all that, for all the others make the company directors personally liable.

bjornevik 3y ago
> misclassifying
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Another one is misclassifying non exempt employees as exempt, and not paying them for more than 40 hours per week. Big in immigrant circles where one or two people will operate a 24/7 or near 24/7 business and be called “managers” when they have no management autonomy.
InitialLastName 3y ago
> some people are perfectly happy to be independent contractors. Literally nobody is denying that. The issue is that many companies are also happy to use the classification to their advantage when the roles don't meet the legal standard their society has put forth as the requirement for someone to be an independent contractor (largely e.g. genuine independence in their work).
- screenothethird 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - gadders 3y ago
    >>being an idiot Have you been talking to my wife?
devmor 3y ago
Whether you are happy to be a contractor or not, there is a legal definition of contractor vs employee and it is often misrepresented to the detriment of the eponymous contractor.
- gadders 3y ago
  In the UK, it is often misrepresented to the benefit of the tax office.
nostrademons 3y ago
Usually people are happy to be independent contractors because of the autonomy it brings. The issue with misclassification is that a number of jobs don't actually have the level of autonomy needed to be legally classified as an independent contractor, and yet the company classifies them as one anyway to skimp out on benefits.
enragedcacti 3y ago
They don't mean "Uber driver" or "Tech Consultant", they mean when businesses hire someone as a contractor for a set of roles and responsibilities that are legally a job, usually followed up by exploiting that distinction to pay less than minimum wage or flout other federal labor laws. Here is the latest ruling on how the distinction is made: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/01/10/2024-00067/employee-or-independent-contractor-classification-under-the-fair-labor-standards-act https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/01/10/2024-00...
- mattlutze 3y ago
  There's also the jobs where folks thing they're an employee but are being reported by the business as a contractor, to effectively pay less and also save on required tax and benefit compensation.
- gadders 3y ago
  I'm happy if the driver of the classification is to the benefit of the employee. In the UK, it is mostly driven by the need to maximise tax revenue.
yardie 3y ago
Plenty of jobs will pay you the state/federal minimum wage on a 1099. And if that is the case you aren't a contractor because a real contractor knows there is running costs to dba that aren't factored into those low pay rates. And as labor court has determined repeatedly, if you can't choose pay, hours, or location you aren't a contractor.
NikolaNovak 3y ago
Absolutely. This however is empathically and clearly not about people who enjoy perks of independent contracting. I'm aware of no union or "tax people" in my circle who deny that reality. This is about people who have NO perks of independent contracting and NO perks of being an employee. I've had several friends in such situations - from sleezy sketchy places, to standard practice at bug research institutions. (The down votes, fwiw, are probably not because people disagree with your political stance, lest you feel like a martyr, but from possibly intentional obtuse misrepresentation of article and issue).
- gadders 3y ago
  >>I'm aware of no union or "tax people" in my circle who deny that reality. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/understanding-off-payroll-working-ir35 https://www.gov.uk/guidance/understanding-off-payroll-workin... >> (The down votes, fwiw, are probably not because people disagree with your political stance, lest you feel like a martyr, but from possibly intentional obtuse misrepresentation of article and issue). I think I'll cope with the loss of imaginary internet points, and there is no obtuse misrepresentation. Clearly your reading comprehension is struggling. I said that: >>>> There are numerous forms of wage theft, from employers not compensating workers for time worked, violating minimum wage and overtime laws, misclassifying employees as independent contractors, not providing legally required meal breaks, confiscating worker tips, or illegally taking deductions from worker wages. >> Yeah, one of those isn't like the others. I know unions and the tax people hate it, but some people are perfectly happy to be independent contractors. I can't think of anyone that would like to be paid less than minimum wage, or not get paid overtime for instance, but I can think of plenty of people (especially in the UK) that would have liked to have continued as independent contractors (in IT, broadcasting, lorry driving or wherever). Often under the guise of protecting the vulnerable, over broad legislation is passed that affects more than just (EG) the Uber Eats driver.

bjornevik 3y ago

> misclassifying

lotsofpulp 3y ago
Another one is misclassifying non exempt employees as exempt, and not paying them for more than 40 hours per week. Big in immigrant circles where one or two people will operate a 24/7 or near 24/7 business and be called “managers” when they have no management autonomy.

InitialLastName 3y ago

> some people are perfectly happy to be independent contractors. Literally nobody is denying that. The issue is that many companies are also happy to use the classification to their advantage when the roles don't meet the legal standard their society has put forth as the requirement for someone to be an independent contractor (largely e.g. genuine independence in their work).

screenothethird 3y ago
[flagged]
- gadders 3y ago
  >>being an idiot Have you been talking to my wife?

devmor 3y ago

Whether you are happy to be a contractor or not, there is a legal definition of contractor vs employee and it is often misrepresented to the detriment of the eponymous contractor.

gadders 3y ago
In the UK, it is often misrepresented to the benefit of the tax office.

nostrademons 3y ago

Usually people are happy to be independent contractors because of the autonomy it brings. The issue with misclassification is that a number of jobs don't actually have the level of autonomy needed to be legally classified as an independent contractor, and yet the company classifies them as one anyway to skimp out on benefits.

enragedcacti 3y ago

They don't mean "Uber driver" or "Tech Consultant", they mean when businesses hire someone as a contractor for a set of roles and responsibilities that are legally a job, usually followed up by exploiting that distinction to pay less than minimum wage or flout other federal labor laws. Here is the latest ruling on how the distinction is made: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/01/10/2024-00067/employee-or-independent-contractor-classification-under-the-fair-labor-standards-act https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/01/10/2024-00...

mattlutze 3y ago
There's also the jobs where folks thing they're an employee but are being reported by the business as a contractor, to effectively pay less and also save on required tax and benefit compensation.
gadders 3y ago
I'm happy if the driver of the classification is to the benefit of the employee. In the UK, it is mostly driven by the need to maximise tax revenue.

yardie 3y ago

Plenty of jobs will pay you the state/federal minimum wage on a 1099. And if that is the case you aren't a contractor because a real contractor knows there is running costs to dba that aren't factored into those low pay rates. And as labor court has determined repeatedly, if you can't choose pay, hours, or location you aren't a contractor.

NikolaNovak 3y ago

Absolutely. This however is empathically and clearly not about people who enjoy perks of independent contracting. I'm aware of no union or "tax people" in my circle who deny that reality. This is about people who have NO perks of independent contracting and NO perks of being an employee. I've had several friends in such situations - from sleezy sketchy places, to standard practice at bug research institutions. (The down votes, fwiw, are probably not because people disagree with your political stance, lest you feel like a martyr, but from possibly intentional obtuse misrepresentation of article and issue).

gadders 3y ago
>>I'm aware of no union or "tax people" in my circle who deny that reality. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/understanding-off-payroll-working-ir35 https://www.gov.uk/guidance/understanding-off-payroll-workin... >> (The down votes, fwiw, are probably not because people disagree with your political stance, lest you feel like a martyr, but from possibly intentional obtuse misrepresentation of article and issue). I think I'll cope with the loss of imaginary internet points, and there is no obtuse misrepresentation. Clearly your reading comprehension is struggling. I said that: >>>> There are numerous forms of wage theft, from employers not compensating workers for time worked, violating minimum wage and overtime laws, misclassifying employees as independent contractors, not providing legally required meal breaks, confiscating worker tips, or illegally taking deductions from worker wages. >> Yeah, one of those isn't like the others. I know unions and the tax people hate it, but some people are perfectly happy to be independent contractors. I can't think of anyone that would like to be paid less than minimum wage, or not get paid overtime for instance, but I can think of plenty of people (especially in the UK) that would have liked to have continued as independent contractors (in IT, broadcasting, lorry driving or wherever). Often under the guise of protecting the vulnerable, over broad legislation is passed that affects more than just (EG) the Uber Eats driver.