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My daughter is an only child but has eight cousins (that I know of, most are in her age range) but barely spends time with them. She's not missing out on anythi

by TomK32 3y ago

My daughter is an only child but has eight cousins (that I know of, most are in her age range) but barely spends time with them. She's not missing out on anything because she has a large circle of friends her age, be it from the public playground when they only started walking, kindergarden or now the first three years in school. It takes some effort as a parent and tbh dumping-the-child-at-her-friends-and-vice-versa but she's got a much better social life than I had at her age and she'll continue that even though she'll move 4hrs away to the country-side this summer. Her best friend actually moved away two years ago, we still make sure they meet up and have sleep-overs and such. Lots of people here write about the number of cousins, but those are often of a different age, it was the same with my two cousins. Also missing from the article: Kids being pushed into extra-curricula after school, be it soccer or music, those might not necessarily lead to friendships? Lastly, our environment has changed a lot. It's just not safe to let kids run wild outside with all those cars. The number of kids killed by cars didn't sink over the past 40 years because cars got safe, it sunk because kids get basically locked in. In my city (in Austria) we have quite a lot of older and newer building complexes where cars are kept outside, those are much better for kids.

postexitus 3y ago
I am not sure if friends replace (at least my experience of) cousins. With couisins, you spend days, nights, sleepovers sometimes a whole summer together. You share grandparents, your parents are siblings - you never leave each other's side. It's like sibling minus one. With friends, yes you get very good friends and they are your "chosen family" but you don't spend half as much time together even to the best of your efforts (unless living next door) at the same time, things force you to fall apart - moving, schools, preferences etc.
- TomK32 3y ago
  Unlike your friends, you can't choose your family and sleepovers with friends is what my daughter has more than once a month.
  - postexitus 3y ago
    Sure, we are talking about averages, and on average, cousins of the past used to spend more time together than friends of today. And got along pretty well, especially in larger families where you can actually "choose your better family". Larger the family, more chances of having a "good cousin". What your daughter won't have is when those friends move away, she will be less likely to see them during summer / x-mas / thanksgiving, despite your best efforts. With cousins of the past, these were automatic.
Sakos 3y ago
As an elder millenial in my 30s, I also barely had any contact to my cousins. I think this isn't a recent development. My dad had a lot closer ties to his cousins and it showed in all the family meetings/reunions over the years. These people were somehow always present in my younger life. It was family. And though I've had plenty of friends over the years, I do think that ever-present network of familial ties is missing and that maybe we've lost something different that can't be replaced by friendships. I don't know if I'm worse off in any quantifiable way and I don't know if it's worse this way. I just wonder if there's something I might be missing out on by not having that familial social network on top of my current social network, which is admittedly quite small and limited compared to when I was young. Maybe I'd feel less lonely and a bit less adrift if I had a larger family that I had close ties to and could fall back on. A "family reunion" now is just me and my siblings. Down from 10-20 people to 3. That does make me sad to think about now.
jmathai 3y ago
My older kids are 11 and 13. My experience differs. My wife and I moved away from family before having children. Our kids had plenty of friends they could play with. It felt transient though - perhaps because we lived in a transient area (SF Bay Area). Friends would come and go. We moved back to be closer to family last summer. And, for us, the difference was stark. The relationships between family and friends are different. Both important. But friends are replaceable…as terrible as that may sound. And one difference I think we (and others) didn’t realize is that family is much much much more permanent. You may not enjoy their company as much - but they will be there for many decades. And it turns out that’s very important for us.
- postexitus 3y ago
  That's indeed true. I don't have siblings, but many cousins of different ages. If they were "friends", they would have probably have dropped out of the radar pretty early on. But now in my 40s, I do see an immense benefit of getting to know the adult version of them, and having shared history, family, locations, memories etc. makes it massively easier.
Retric 3y ago
There’s very specific safety features that have reduced the number of kids killed by cars. Backup cameras for example where mandated specificity due to demonstrated safety benefits. People vastly overestimate how dangerous letting their kids out to play is and underestimate how beneficial it is. There’s real health benefits to running around outside which means limiting them to specific after school activities also has negative consequences.
- TomK32 3y ago
  SUV are get bigger with the blind zones in front of and around cars are getting longer and frontovers are becoming a problem as well https://www.kidsandcars.org/news/post/senator-wants-federal-agency-to-address-deaths-caused-by-large-suv-front-blind-zones https://www.kidsandcars.org/news/post/senator-wants-federal-...
  - Retric 3y ago
    That’s a real issue even if the increase in risk from front overs due to large SUV’s is significantly less than the safety benefits of backup cameras alone. A common bias when many things change is to only consider the changes which support your views rather than all changes combined. I could counter by bringing up nearly 100% of new SUVs in 2024 include automatic breaking systems, but what matters here is relative safety not individual changes in isolation. Pedestrian deaths were 2 percent lower in 2021 than in 1975, which seems like zero progress but the US had 211 million people in 1975 vs 337 million in 2021. Thus the individual risk has dropped by almost 40% even though people seem to think it increased. Not that overall pedestrian deaths is directly comparable to risk to kids from playing outside, but it is suggestive. Edit: The reduction in children being killed is much larger, but that’s probably less to do with cars than wider social trends. https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/pedestrians https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/pedes...
    - sagarm 3y ago
      Pedestrian fatality rates are at a 40-year high. https://www.npr.org/2023/06/26/1184034017/us-pedestrian-deaths-high-traffic-car https://www.npr.org/2023/06/26/1184034017/us-pedestrian-deat...
ace32229 3y ago
>She's not missing out on anything I disagree with this for 2 reasons: 1. Cousins are likely to be a mix of ages, probably your age +- 10 years. I think there's some benefit to that, especially having elder cousins that can teach you cool stuff / protect you at school / buy you beer etc. 2. You lose contact with the vast majority of friends you make at school, eventually. Cousins aren't the same, you're more likely to see them at holidays and events than your best friend when you were 5 years old.
wikidani 3y ago
I don't think cars are the biggest issue here though, most people I know seem to be worried about the lack of third spaces that are clean and wouldn't expose their children to crime or drug use for example.
- guythedudebro 3y ago
  The cars took the third space

by TomK32 3y ago

postexitus 3y ago

I am not sure if friends replace (at least my experience of) cousins. With couisins, you spend days, nights, sleepovers sometimes a whole summer together. You share grandparents, your parents are siblings - you never leave each other's side. It's like sibling minus one. With friends, yes you get very good friends and they are your "chosen family" but you don't spend half as much time together even to the best of your efforts (unless living next door) at the same time, things force you to fall apart - moving, schools, preferences etc.

TomK32 3y ago
Unlike your friends, you can't choose your family and sleepovers with friends is what my daughter has more than once a month.
- postexitus 3y ago
  Sure, we are talking about averages, and on average, cousins of the past used to spend more time together than friends of today. And got along pretty well, especially in larger families where you can actually "choose your better family". Larger the family, more chances of having a "good cousin". What your daughter won't have is when those friends move away, she will be less likely to see them during summer / x-mas / thanksgiving, despite your best efforts. With cousins of the past, these were automatic.

Sakos 3y ago

As an elder millenial in my 30s, I also barely had any contact to my cousins. I think this isn't a recent development. My dad had a lot closer ties to his cousins and it showed in all the family meetings/reunions over the years. These people were somehow always present in my younger life. It was family. And though I've had plenty of friends over the years, I do think that ever-present network of familial ties is missing and that maybe we've lost something different that can't be replaced by friendships. I don't know if I'm worse off in any quantifiable way and I don't know if it's worse this way. I just wonder if there's something I might be missing out on by not having that familial social network on top of my current social network, which is admittedly quite small and limited compared to when I was young. Maybe I'd feel less lonely and a bit less adrift if I had a larger family that I had close ties to and could fall back on. A "family reunion" now is just me and my siblings. Down from 10-20 people to 3. That does make me sad to think about now.

jmathai 3y ago

My older kids are 11 and 13. My experience differs. My wife and I moved away from family before having children. Our kids had plenty of friends they could play with. It felt transient though - perhaps because we lived in a transient area (SF Bay Area). Friends would come and go. We moved back to be closer to family last summer. And, for us, the difference was stark. The relationships between family and friends are different. Both important. But friends are replaceable…as terrible as that may sound. And one difference I think we (and others) didn’t realize is that family is much much much more permanent. You may not enjoy their company as much - but they will be there for many decades. And it turns out that’s very important for us.

postexitus 3y ago
That's indeed true. I don't have siblings, but many cousins of different ages. If they were "friends", they would have probably have dropped out of the radar pretty early on. But now in my 40s, I do see an immense benefit of getting to know the adult version of them, and having shared history, family, locations, memories etc. makes it massively easier.

Retric 3y ago

There’s very specific safety features that have reduced the number of kids killed by cars. Backup cameras for example where mandated specificity due to demonstrated safety benefits. People vastly overestimate how dangerous letting their kids out to play is and underestimate how beneficial it is. There’s real health benefits to running around outside which means limiting them to specific after school activities also has negative consequences.

TomK32 3y ago
SUV are get bigger with the blind zones in front of and around cars are getting longer and frontovers are becoming a problem as well https://www.kidsandcars.org/news/post/senator-wants-federal-agency-to-address-deaths-caused-by-large-suv-front-blind-zones https://www.kidsandcars.org/news/post/senator-wants-federal-...
- Retric 3y ago
  That’s a real issue even if the increase in risk from front overs due to large SUV’s is significantly less than the safety benefits of backup cameras alone. A common bias when many things change is to only consider the changes which support your views rather than all changes combined. I could counter by bringing up nearly 100% of new SUVs in 2024 include automatic breaking systems, but what matters here is relative safety not individual changes in isolation. Pedestrian deaths were 2 percent lower in 2021 than in 1975, which seems like zero progress but the US had 211 million people in 1975 vs 337 million in 2021. Thus the individual risk has dropped by almost 40% even though people seem to think it increased. Not that overall pedestrian deaths is directly comparable to risk to kids from playing outside, but it is suggestive. Edit: The reduction in children being killed is much larger, but that’s probably less to do with cars than wider social trends. https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/pedestrians https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/pedes...
  - sagarm 3y ago
    Pedestrian fatality rates are at a 40-year high. https://www.npr.org/2023/06/26/1184034017/us-pedestrian-deaths-high-traffic-car https://www.npr.org/2023/06/26/1184034017/us-pedestrian-deat...

ace32229 3y ago

>She's not missing out on anything I disagree with this for 2 reasons: 1. Cousins are likely to be a mix of ages, probably your age +- 10 years. I think there's some benefit to that, especially having elder cousins that can teach you cool stuff / protect you at school / buy you beer etc. 2. You lose contact with the vast majority of friends you make at school, eventually. Cousins aren't the same, you're more likely to see them at holidays and events than your best friend when you were 5 years old.

wikidani 3y ago

I don't think cars are the biggest issue here though, most people I know seem to be worried about the lack of third spaces that are clean and wouldn't expose their children to crime or drug use for example.

guythedudebro 3y ago
The cars took the third space