3 ms·

Any time I see "parents" require daycare for "their" children, I always think (or in particular cases say): Don't have children if you can't raise them yourself

Any time I see "parents" require daycare for "their" children, I always think (or in particular cases say): Don't have children if you can't raise them yourself. I write this with the utmost sincerity: You as the would be father/mother brought your child into this world, the absolute least you could do is be the dad/mom they need in their life. Don't come at me with how you must sacrifice your career and future for your kids: Of fucking course you have to! The moment you decide to have kids and bring them forth, "your" life is completely at the behest of your kids. That is what having kids means. If you do not want or cannot handle the duty of sacrificing your life for your kids, do not have kids. There is no existence more tragic than a child born to parents who can not or will not spend their childhood with them.

graemep 3y ago
I got downvoted for a far milder version of what you said. Going to watch this with interest. I do not think parents can be entirely blamed. We have made having children too difficult for multiple reasons. Yes, you are primarily responsible, but good communities, family friendly work, access to extended family and other things all help.
losvedir 3y ago
Are you also opposed to sending your kids to school? Better not let them out of your sight for any hours of the day...
- mlrtime 3y ago
  The first 5 years (Before Kindergarten) is the most important time for early child development. It is also the most difficult. Don't be obtuse.
- graemep 3y ago
  I am actually. I took my kids out of school. I am not in favour of never letting them out of my sight because it is important they develop autonomy and be able to look after themselves. Seeing them growing and learning is one of the joys of being a parent. The point is being involved, which is good for children and rewarding for parents.
  - sangnoir 3y ago
    > [...] it is important they develop autonomy and be able to look after themselves Autonomy is arguably better fostered by them learning to navigate school (and to/from school) by themselves. Different strokes for different folks.
- darkwater 3y ago
  There is some big logical fallacy going on here... there is a very, very vast space in between, as you are implying, staying 24/7 with your children and letting someone else raise your children for you (grandparents, nanny or whatever).
gizmondo 3y ago
Children were pretty much never raised exclusively by their parents throughout the history of mankind, were they? So I would put quotes around the word "need" instead.
- ndriscoll 3y ago
  I'm sure not exclusively, and I don't know what a typical daycare schedule is like because my wife stays at home, but e.g. my 2 year old gets up around 7am, and usually takes an hour to eat her breakfast. Then I guess to drop her off somewhere and get to work by 9, we'd have to leave close to 8. Then we might get home around 6, and it's time to eat dinner (again this takes her an hour), take a bath, and bed time. So 5/7 days, she'd only get her parents telling her to hurry up and eat followed by putting her to bed. That's almost exclusively being raised by a stranger. I might not put it as aggressively as the other commenter, but I do wonder why it seems common for my peers to use daycare (if they have kids at all). I know they have the means not to. We'll see what happens when the time comes, but I quite like the idea of home schooling or hybrid schooling depending on what everyone wants. The time you get is so limited; to me at least I don't see what could take priority over spending time with them while we can (again, this applies more to people in my social class who have the means). And when people talk about "sacrificing their career"... my work is the means, not the end. To speak of "sacrificing" career for family is just... baffling. Unless you are a trauma surgeon saving lives every day or an amazing scientist inventing cancer cures, I can't believe anyone would say it. Something like principal engineer or director at a fortune 500? It's just a way to make money. We lost my dad very suddenly when I was a teenager, so I've always had to consider that no matter how much money I make, I'll never be able to buy more time with him, but I can focus my resources on my family having more time together, and hopefully I can pass my kids that lesson without them having to learn it so directly (or at least so young. At some point we all need to learn that lesson directly). Having a stay-at-home-parent means we're buying 10,400 hours of her and her mom together before age 5. Good deal at almost any price, and it only becomes a better deal when you have more kids. Likewise with remote work, if I get an extra 1.5 hours per workday (commute + seeing them when I take a break), that's almost 400 extra hours together per year. Sometimes my daughter comes and sits on my lap while I'm working on the computer, and I'll put Curious George on for her on another monitor. How lucky I am! When people in my social strata talk about daycare, I just want to shout at them. Not angry like the other commenter, but in a more pleading tone: don't you realize! Life is fleeting! Didn't anyone tell you! Oh well.
fooster 3y ago
With many US states restricting access to abortion this seems like a problematic argument.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jodrellblank 3y ago
What if you have parents who are very willing to be the childcare you need? Is there really, seriously, "no existence more tragic" than a child who spends a few hours a day with a doting 50 year old grandmother? Or with their cousins and aunt and uncle? Or with a kindly neighbour and their kids? > "Don't have children if you can't raise them yourself." What do you think of "it takes a village to raise a child"?
rpcope1 3y ago
I agree with you entirely. It's hard not to imagine spending as much time with my son as I reasonably can. Even if he's a little challenging sometimes, it's really been one of the most amazing things I've ever been gifted in my life.
sangnoir 3y ago
> Any time I see "parents" require daycare for "their" children, I always think (or in particular cases say): Don't have children if you can't raise them yourself. Then it should be no surprise that fewer people are having children. Many potential parents are seeing a mismatch between their ideal conditions to having a child and their circumstances and/or the state of the world and choosing not to having children (or delaying) Addendum: some parents think they can raise kids, but discover they cannot in the worst possible way. I don't judge anyone chooses to place a child in daycare, its much better for society than Shaken Baby Syndrome, for instance.

graemep 3y ago

I got downvoted for a far milder version of what you said. Going to watch this with interest. I do not think parents can be entirely blamed. We have made having children too difficult for multiple reasons. Yes, you are primarily responsible, but good communities, family friendly work, access to extended family and other things all help.

losvedir 3y ago

Are you also opposed to sending your kids to school? Better not let them out of your sight for any hours of the day...

mlrtime 3y ago
The first 5 years (Before Kindergarten) is the most important time for early child development. It is also the most difficult. Don't be obtuse.
graemep 3y ago
I am actually. I took my kids out of school. I am not in favour of never letting them out of my sight because it is important they develop autonomy and be able to look after themselves. Seeing them growing and learning is one of the joys of being a parent. The point is being involved, which is good for children and rewarding for parents.
- sangnoir 3y ago
  > [...] it is important they develop autonomy and be able to look after themselves Autonomy is arguably better fostered by them learning to navigate school (and to/from school) by themselves. Different strokes for different folks.
darkwater 3y ago
There is some big logical fallacy going on here... there is a very, very vast space in between, as you are implying, staying 24/7 with your children and letting someone else raise your children for you (grandparents, nanny or whatever).

gizmondo 3y ago

Children were pretty much never raised exclusively by their parents throughout the history of mankind, were they? So I would put quotes around the word "need" instead.

ndriscoll 3y ago
I'm sure not exclusively, and I don't know what a typical daycare schedule is like because my wife stays at home, but e.g. my 2 year old gets up around 7am, and usually takes an hour to eat her breakfast. Then I guess to drop her off somewhere and get to work by 9, we'd have to leave close to 8. Then we might get home around 6, and it's time to eat dinner (again this takes her an hour), take a bath, and bed time. So 5/7 days, she'd only get her parents telling her to hurry up and eat followed by putting her to bed. That's almost exclusively being raised by a stranger. I might not put it as aggressively as the other commenter, but I do wonder why it seems common for my peers to use daycare (if they have kids at all). I know they have the means not to. We'll see what happens when the time comes, but I quite like the idea of home schooling or hybrid schooling depending on what everyone wants. The time you get is so limited; to me at least I don't see what could take priority over spending time with them while we can (again, this applies more to people in my social class who have the means). And when people talk about "sacrificing their career"... my work is the means, not the end. To speak of "sacrificing" career for family is just... baffling. Unless you are a trauma surgeon saving lives every day or an amazing scientist inventing cancer cures, I can't believe anyone would say it. Something like principal engineer or director at a fortune 500? It's just a way to make money. We lost my dad very suddenly when I was a teenager, so I've always had to consider that no matter how much money I make, I'll never be able to buy more time with him, but I can focus my resources on my family having more time together, and hopefully I can pass my kids that lesson without them having to learn it so directly (or at least so young. At some point we all need to learn that lesson directly). Having a stay-at-home-parent means we're buying 10,400 hours of her and her mom together before age 5. Good deal at almost any price, and it only becomes a better deal when you have more kids. Likewise with remote work, if I get an extra 1.5 hours per workday (commute + seeing them when I take a break), that's almost 400 extra hours together per year. Sometimes my daughter comes and sits on my lap while I'm working on the computer, and I'll put Curious George on for her on another monitor. How lucky I am! When people in my social strata talk about daycare, I just want to shout at them. Not angry like the other commenter, but in a more pleading tone: don't you realize! Life is fleeting! Didn't anyone tell you! Oh well.

fooster 3y ago

With many US states restricting access to abortion this seems like a problematic argument.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jodrellblank 3y ago

What if you have parents who are very willing to be the childcare you need? Is there really, seriously, "no existence more tragic" than a child who spends a few hours a day with a doting 50 year old grandmother? Or with their cousins and aunt and uncle? Or with a kindly neighbour and their kids? > "Don't have children if you can't raise them yourself." What do you think of "it takes a village to raise a child"?

rpcope1 3y ago

I agree with you entirely. It's hard not to imagine spending as much time with my son as I reasonably can. Even if he's a little challenging sometimes, it's really been one of the most amazing things I've ever been gifted in my life.

sangnoir 3y ago

> Any time I see "parents" require daycare for "their" children, I always think (or in particular cases say): Don't have children if you can't raise them yourself. Then it should be no surprise that fewer people are having children. Many potential parents are seeing a mismatch between their ideal conditions to having a child and their circumstances and/or the state of the world and choosing not to having children (or delaying) Addendum: some parents think they can raise kids, but discover they cannot in the worst possible way. I don't judge anyone chooses to place a child in daycare, its much better for society than Shaken Baby Syndrome, for instance.