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Yes they can. People are just too selfish and think of kids as costing lattes and ruining their free time. Believe it or not, kids don't have to be expensive

Yes they can. People are just too selfish and think of kids as costing lattes and ruining their free time. Believe it or not, kids don't have to be expensive as reports have you believe. They can go to public school, wear hand me downs or walmart clothes, and eat what would have been leftovers. Most coworkers with kids I've spoken with complain about costs of daycare, babysitting, and Montessori schools. We pay for none of those as they aren't necessary. If even one parent works from home, it's a solved problem. If both do not, evaluate the costs. Many times, you actually lose money by both parents working. I have a child and we do fine on one salary. Would love more, but either my aging body or god one has determined that would be decidedly more expensive. ETA: Anyone on the fence who wants a kid - go for it. Don't try to keep up with the Jones' or try to budget them out. Kids are awesome. They're little blank slates who don't need much more than love, attention, education, and sustainance. If you keep waiting for when it's right, it'll never happen.

makeitdouble 3y ago
"it takes a village to raise a kid" Yet the message sent to potential parents is so far from that, I won't blame people foregoing having kids. There's a strong movement pushing for smaller governments and less public and social expenses in general, that directly makes it worse (kids are sick all the time, they need schools, public transportation, libraries, public services in general). You're arguing for giving up on daycare when so many companies are pushing back to office rules. To your point, if a couple is at the point they couldn't afford lattes if they had kids, I don't see them properly raising that kid without a ton of aid, and looking at the comments we usually have here, most will point the finger at them for not being responsible enough instead.
vintermann 3y ago
You are just as selfish as your friends. You just have a different idea about what life you want (and also probably higher income, I bet). Would you have another kid if you knew it would make your current kid significantly worse off? It's the same argument as that, except that you count the spouse as part of the equation. If you make conscious choices to keep having kids even though 1. You don't need them to help on your farm or to support you in your old age, 2. Each additional kid further immiserates your spouse and the older kids aren't you the selfish one?
- brewdad 3y ago
  No.
TheCapeGreek 3y ago
You've addressed everything except the free time aspect. For many, having free time replaced by family time with their kids is great and all they need/want. "Selfishly" from the outside perspective, it makes all my friends with kids flakey, late, and one-track. It takes a huge effort not only to avoid the consumerism side of children, but also to try and maintain your individuality. The most successful parents I know in this regard are also conveniently the wealthiest.
- silisili 3y ago
  Free time I guess is a big one. If you value the 'hanging with the boys', clubbing, or really any solo activity it certainly would be a shock. By the time mine came along, I was done with most of that anyways I guess. But my own free time - watching TV, playing games, reading books, or just scrolling on my phone, was largely replaced with building legos, having nerf gun fights, playing board games, etc. One 'hidden' benefit is that you get to be a kid again without seeming weird, and kids toys todays are so much cooler. I do think 'selfish' was too broad and strong of a claim. I was focusing solely on the thought of people who make way more than enough money claiming a child would ruin their lifestyle/break them. In reality, there are tons of other reasons a person may not want a child that aren't selfish at all.
cntrmmbrpsswrd 3y ago
The idea that not having kids is a selfish act is ridiculous and needs to end.
- mlboss 3y ago
  The reasoning is that you were raised by somebody but when it is your turn you are avoiding the responsibility. If everybody start to think this way the human race will stop existing.
  - RankingMember 3y ago
    You can't renege on a "responsibility" you didn't sign up for. Furthermore, if someone asked me to make a list of mammals least in danger of extinction, humanity would be at the very top. The idea that we need to keep exponentially growing or face extinction strikes me as remarkably similar to pyramid-scheme thinking.
- baq 3y ago
  It is. Who will buy your products and services 20-30 years from today? If the question sounds ridiculous, trust me it isn't. You can look at demographics of China, or if you don't particularly care about that but care about finance, long duration government debt.
  - webdood90 3y ago
    > Who will buy your products and services 20-30 years from today? Won't someone think of the poor capitalists! That's a sad excuse to bring a life into this world. A world that suffers from the side effects of capitalism, ironically.
    - baq 3y ago
      Life doesn’t need excuses. It happens on its own. Human ability to stop it from happening reliably is rather new. The poor capitalist is only one sad person. The poor dictator or emperor or tsar is another. The childless by choice middle class city dwellers who suddenly realize there’s no one young enough to provide the products and services they require to continue their hedonistic lifestyles are another still. There’s a conspiracy theory I don’t subscribe to which says Covid and vaccines are a depopulation program. But we don’t need one…
graemep 3y ago
> Anyone on the fence who wants a kid - go for i I agree. Having kids in incredibly rewarding and fulfilling.
master_crab 3y ago
> Most coworkers with kids I've spoken with complain about costs of daycare, babysitting, and Montessori schools. We pay for none of those as they aren't necessary. If even one parent works from home, it's a solved problem. If both do not, evaluate the costs. Many times, you actually lose money by both parents working Many (most?) people definitely don't have the luxury of having a parent stay at home.
jplusequalt 3y ago
How is it selfish to not want children? There is more to life than being a parent.

makeitdouble 3y ago

"it takes a village to raise a kid" Yet the message sent to potential parents is so far from that, I won't blame people foregoing having kids. There's a strong movement pushing for smaller governments and less public and social expenses in general, that directly makes it worse (kids are sick all the time, they need schools, public transportation, libraries, public services in general). You're arguing for giving up on daycare when so many companies are pushing back to office rules. To your point, if a couple is at the point they couldn't afford lattes if they had kids, I don't see them properly raising that kid without a ton of aid, and looking at the comments we usually have here, most will point the finger at them for not being responsible enough instead.

vintermann 3y ago

You are just as selfish as your friends. You just have a different idea about what life you want (and also probably higher income, I bet). Would you have another kid if you knew it would make your current kid significantly worse off? It's the same argument as that, except that you count the spouse as part of the equation. If you make conscious choices to keep having kids even though 1. You don't need them to help on your farm or to support you in your old age, 2. Each additional kid further immiserates your spouse and the older kids aren't you the selfish one?

brewdad 3y ago
No.

TheCapeGreek 3y ago

You've addressed everything except the free time aspect. For many, having free time replaced by family time with their kids is great and all they need/want. "Selfishly" from the outside perspective, it makes all my friends with kids flakey, late, and one-track. It takes a huge effort not only to avoid the consumerism side of children, but also to try and maintain your individuality. The most successful parents I know in this regard are also conveniently the wealthiest.

silisili 3y ago
Free time I guess is a big one. If you value the 'hanging with the boys', clubbing, or really any solo activity it certainly would be a shock. By the time mine came along, I was done with most of that anyways I guess. But my own free time - watching TV, playing games, reading books, or just scrolling on my phone, was largely replaced with building legos, having nerf gun fights, playing board games, etc. One 'hidden' benefit is that you get to be a kid again without seeming weird, and kids toys todays are so much cooler. I do think 'selfish' was too broad and strong of a claim. I was focusing solely on the thought of people who make way more than enough money claiming a child would ruin their lifestyle/break them. In reality, there are tons of other reasons a person may not want a child that aren't selfish at all.

cntrmmbrpsswrd 3y ago

The idea that not having kids is a selfish act is ridiculous and needs to end.

mlboss 3y ago
The reasoning is that you were raised by somebody but when it is your turn you are avoiding the responsibility. If everybody start to think this way the human race will stop existing.
- RankingMember 3y ago
  You can't renege on a "responsibility" you didn't sign up for. Furthermore, if someone asked me to make a list of mammals least in danger of extinction, humanity would be at the very top. The idea that we need to keep exponentially growing or face extinction strikes me as remarkably similar to pyramid-scheme thinking.
baq 3y ago
It is. Who will buy your products and services 20-30 years from today? If the question sounds ridiculous, trust me it isn't. You can look at demographics of China, or if you don't particularly care about that but care about finance, long duration government debt.
- webdood90 3y ago
  > Who will buy your products and services 20-30 years from today? Won't someone think of the poor capitalists! That's a sad excuse to bring a life into this world. A world that suffers from the side effects of capitalism, ironically.
  - baq 3y ago
    Life doesn’t need excuses. It happens on its own. Human ability to stop it from happening reliably is rather new. The poor capitalist is only one sad person. The poor dictator or emperor or tsar is another. The childless by choice middle class city dwellers who suddenly realize there’s no one young enough to provide the products and services they require to continue their hedonistic lifestyles are another still. There’s a conspiracy theory I don’t subscribe to which says Covid and vaccines are a depopulation program. But we don’t need one…

graemep 3y ago

> Anyone on the fence who wants a kid - go for i I agree. Having kids in incredibly rewarding and fulfilling.

master_crab 3y ago

> Most coworkers with kids I've spoken with complain about costs of daycare, babysitting, and Montessori schools. We pay for none of those as they aren't necessary. If even one parent works from home, it's a solved problem. If both do not, evaluate the costs. Many times, you actually lose money by both parents working Many (most?) people definitely don't have the luxury of having a parent stay at home.

jplusequalt 3y ago

How is it selfish to not want children? There is more to life than being a parent.