5 ms·

When law enforcement is raiding a residence, they never just let people hang around inside unsupervised. They get them outside and detained. The primary concern

When law enforcement is raiding a residence, they never just let people hang around inside unsupervised. They get them outside and detained. The primary concern is making sure no one has an opportunity to grab a weapon and put people in danger. And since this is literally a domestic terrorism investigation I think that’s a very reasonable precaution.

fnordpiglet 3y ago
And leaving her nude for hours taking photographs of her? Come. This is torture via shame. They easily could have offered any form of cover in a safe and controlled way but chose to humiliate her. The police are entitled to take measures for their safety, but this is abusing that right. There is a line, but the fact they’re allowed to cross it without reproach is why there is so little public trust in the police. They’ve become oppressors in safety’s name.
eesmith 3y ago
Why execute the search warrant at 6am? Why use a flash grenade on sleeping people? Any raid that early must expect to find naked people sleeping as a lot of Americans sleep naked. (I see numbers including 8%, 12%, 17%, 28.5%, and "58 percent of Millennials"). The numbers are higher if you include partially clothed. Why do the police have no procedures in place for what must surely be a common occurrence, like a blanket or robe they can provide to a detained half-naked woman? I agree that it comes across like the psychological torment of the occupants of the residences is part of the reason for executing the search warrant this way. Just because it's a domestic terrorism case does not mean the suspects - who may well be innocent - should be treated this way.
- philwelch 3y ago
  > Why execute the search warrant at 6am? Why use a flash grenade on sleeping people? To minimize the danger to the officers executing the search. This is a case of organized, premeditated violence motivated by opposition to law enforcement; obviously a high risk situation.
  - WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
    >To minimize the danger to the officers executing the search. The trend of cops being safer every year hasn't changed in generations. Militarizing police and treating citizens as armed combatants didn't budge the overall trend. However, when war-grade policing rolled out, the officer-safety trend became spiker than it had been. ref: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1070627/us-law-enforcement-deaths-by-cause-historical/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1070627/us-law-enforceme... > This is a case of organized, premeditated violence motivated by opposition to law enforcement; obviously a high risk situation. Fear-the-public mantra is super helpful to companies that sell gear to maximize civilian harm (and PDs who adore that gear). It doesn't serve the public well, however.
    - philwelch 3y ago
      > Cops are as safe as they were generations ago. Actually, according to the data you shared, they’re safer, at least from gunfire and stabbing. This is probably a direct result of these precautions. > Fear-the-public mantra is super helpful to companies that sell gear to maximize civilian harm Are you seriously accusing me of being a shill for companies that make SWAT gear? Give me a break. I don’t think every search warrant needs to be executed with a predawn raid and flashbangs, but those measures are clearly warranted if the search warrant is for a residence inhabited by suspected domestic terrorists with an animosity towards law enforcement.
      - eesmith 3y ago
        > but those measures are clearly warranted if the search warrant is for a residence inhabited by suspected domestic terrorists with an animosity towards law enforcement. What evidence do they have that this is the case, and that other approaches - like a 9am raid - don't have better outcomes for everyone involved? How many raids like this result in a finding that such a raid was not necessary? How does that compare to raids carried out during normal working hours? Even if a 6am raid is warranted, why didn't the authorities have gowns or robes or other means in place given the high likelihood that some of the people would be naked or half-naked, in order to protect the detainee's sense of decency and humanity? If no guns or explosives are found, and these people are never arrested, never tried, or never convicted, can we retroactively say the raids was needlessly harsh, and thus casting doubt on the reasoning the police use to justify this sort of raid in the first place, or do we always give the benefit of doubt to the police? (In the same way we are told the police sniffer dogs are 100% trustworthy when they indicate drugs, and cannot be assumed to be following a signal from their handler.)

fnordpiglet 3y ago

And leaving her nude for hours taking photographs of her? Come. This is torture via shame. They easily could have offered any form of cover in a safe and controlled way but chose to humiliate her. The police are entitled to take measures for their safety, but this is abusing that right. There is a line, but the fact they’re allowed to cross it without reproach is why there is so little public trust in the police. They’ve become oppressors in safety’s name.

eesmith 3y ago

Why execute the search warrant at 6am? Why use a flash grenade on sleeping people? Any raid that early must expect to find naked people sleeping as a lot of Americans sleep naked. (I see numbers including 8%, 12%, 17%, 28.5%, and "58 percent of Millennials"). The numbers are higher if you include partially clothed. Why do the police have no procedures in place for what must surely be a common occurrence, like a blanket or robe they can provide to a detained half-naked woman? I agree that it comes across like the psychological torment of the occupants of the residences is part of the reason for executing the search warrant this way. Just because it's a domestic terrorism case does not mean the suspects - who may well be innocent - should be treated this way.

philwelch 3y ago
> Why execute the search warrant at 6am? Why use a flash grenade on sleeping people? To minimize the danger to the officers executing the search. This is a case of organized, premeditated violence motivated by opposition to law enforcement; obviously a high risk situation.
- WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
  >To minimize the danger to the officers executing the search. The trend of cops being safer every year hasn't changed in generations. Militarizing police and treating citizens as armed combatants didn't budge the overall trend. However, when war-grade policing rolled out, the officer-safety trend became spiker than it had been. ref: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1070627/us-law-enforcement-deaths-by-cause-historical/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1070627/us-law-enforceme... > This is a case of organized, premeditated violence motivated by opposition to law enforcement; obviously a high risk situation. Fear-the-public mantra is super helpful to companies that sell gear to maximize civilian harm (and PDs who adore that gear). It doesn't serve the public well, however.
  - philwelch 3y ago
    > Cops are as safe as they were generations ago. Actually, according to the data you shared, they’re safer, at least from gunfire and stabbing. This is probably a direct result of these precautions. > Fear-the-public mantra is super helpful to companies that sell gear to maximize civilian harm Are you seriously accusing me of being a shill for companies that make SWAT gear? Give me a break. I don’t think every search warrant needs to be executed with a predawn raid and flashbangs, but those measures are clearly warranted if the search warrant is for a residence inhabited by suspected domestic terrorists with an animosity towards law enforcement.
    - eesmith 3y ago
      > but those measures are clearly warranted if the search warrant is for a residence inhabited by suspected domestic terrorists with an animosity towards law enforcement. What evidence do they have that this is the case, and that other approaches - like a 9am raid - don't have better outcomes for everyone involved? How many raids like this result in a finding that such a raid was not necessary? How does that compare to raids carried out during normal working hours? Even if a 6am raid is warranted, why didn't the authorities have gowns or robes or other means in place given the high likelihood that some of the people would be naked or half-naked, in order to protect the detainee's sense of decency and humanity? If no guns or explosives are found, and these people are never arrested, never tried, or never convicted, can we retroactively say the raids was needlessly harsh, and thus casting doubt on the reasoning the police use to justify this sort of raid in the first place, or do we always give the benefit of doubt to the police? (In the same way we are told the police sniffer dogs are 100% trustworthy when they indicate drugs, and cannot be assumed to be following a signal from their handler.)