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What's the regulatory situation for selling energy back to the grid? Friend of mine 10+ years ago in Porto Alegre opted for solar for water heating only, becaus

by fmobus 3y ago

What's the regulatory situation for selling energy back to the grid? Friend of mine 10+ years ago in Porto Alegre opted for solar for water heating only, because there was no mechanism for net metering.

matheusmoreira 3y ago
> What's the regulatory situation for selling energy back to the grid? You don't sell the energy. Well you kind of do, it's just that they don't pay you in real money. They pay you "kWh credits" which are theorized to offset your consumption in the winter months where solar energy production is lowest. The catch? Those credits expire in one year if unused. They do not accumulate. So brazilians are financially incentivized to produce as much energy as they consume only. Any energy surplus means giving energy away to the power company for free. Since solar energy production is variable, one also needs to be clever with forecasting in order to estimate highs and lows so that they compensate for each other. Make the summers pay for the winters. I suppose one could simply work around all that regulatory nonsense by not actually generating any credits in the first place. Build a small system that generates less than needed since that still means significant energy cost reductions. Alternatively, increase energy consumption. Air conditioners are god's gift to brazilians but there are only so many you can buy before you run out of rooms to install them in. So that leaves... Converting any surplus energy into cryptocurrency instead of injecting it into the grid. They won't pay us? We'll pay ourselves by mining monero.
- Affric 3y ago
  > We'll pay ourselves by mining monero A policy which incentivises turning excess solar energy into one step above pure heat. Classic.
  - matheusmoreira 3y ago
    Well, it's solar energy. Pretty much as close to being pure heat as it gets. Completely wasted heat at that: before solar panels, all it did was heat up my home. In fact, I have to pay money every single day in order to run air conditioners to keep that heat out because otherwise it gets so hot I have a panic attack. The heat is actually harmful to me. With solar panels, I get to redirect that useless sun heat into those air conditioners. The result is more money in my wallet. It's perfect. Even if I were to mine cryptocurrency, it's still pure heat anyway. Sun's shining whether we want it or not. I'd just buy more panels so I can redirect more sun energy into computer chips instead of allowing it to uselessly heat up my backyard. Processors dissipating heat or backyard radiating away heat at night -- what's the difference? The system asked me for a hostname of sorts when I set it up. I named it "sun monetizer". Makes the sun useful for something. I used to hate the sun with every fiber of my being. Now I monetize it. The next step is realizing that cryptocurrencies make it possible to monetize the sun at industrial scales by serving as energy-to-money converters. Sun's gonna continue injecting heat into this earth whether we want it or not. Better make the most of it.
    - elzbardico 3y ago
      A big problem in Brasil is that most residential building are not built to be energy efficient and modern architecture is making this even worse. No isolation on roof and walls, giant glass planes everywhere.
      - matheusmoreira 3y ago
        Can thermal isolation help reduce air conditioning costs by keeping the heat out? I asked someone this once and they looked at me like I was insane. I got the impression this is only done in cold climates.
        elzbardico 3y ago
        Yes. Even small retrofits like putting thermal isolation under the tiles or in the attic's floor make a sizable difference. I did this in a home I lived in Rio de Janeiro. If you are thinking about building in brasil, instead of traditional masonry, consider using insulated structural panels, called EPS in brazil. I friend of mine did a home using this system in Rio de Janeiro where you easily get over 42C (107 F) outside in the summer. It works fantastically. Energy in Brasil used to be way less expensive, and traditional masonry and concrete construction is not very friendly to insulation unless you do like the germans that have double walls with the insulation in the middle. So, culturally, insulation is kind of an alien concept for a lot of people and even engineers.
        matheusmoreira 3y ago
        Thanks for the tips!! I do want to get a home of my own design constructed in the future. I've been compiling resources on the matter and the information you provided is extremely useful.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  The term of art for this is net metering. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_metering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_metering
- fmobus 3y ago
  > The catch? Those credits expire in one year if unused. They do not accumulate. That's kinda fucked up. But well, for my friend in the South, where winters are miserably cold and houses have no heating infrastructure, using the accumulated energy credits during the winter is easy. Heck, there are even crypto-mining heaters available these days, so it kinda works best for him I guess?
- elzbardico 3y ago
  Most of brazil have a hot climate, so, nightly usage of air-conditioning is high. You don't even need to wait for winter to use those credits. And if you have money to do so, buying an electric car can be also a good usage of those credits.
  - matheusmoreira 3y ago
    > Most of brazil have a hot climate, so, nightly usage of air-conditioning is high. Yeah. My air conditioners are running pretty much 24/7. > You don't even need to wait for winter to use those credits. Depends on how much energy you generate. Solar power can easily generate the amount of energy consumed by air conditioning. Just gotta make sure peak summer output generates enough surplus to cover the needs of the other seasons. My solar system generates between 400-1100 kWh/month. It's always been enough and if my needs change I can always expand capacity. > And if you have money to do so, buying an electric car can be also a good usage of those credits. Absolutely. That's my next goal. I don't want to pay for gasoline anymore. I think it's still a bit too early for that, electric cars need to get cheaper for it to be truly worth it.
  - DavidNielsen 3y ago
    Add to this that double glazing and isolation are non-existent, then a lot of energy is wasted.
    - matheusmoreira 3y ago
      > double glazing Didn't know about this! Added to the wishlist.

by fmobus 3y ago

matheusmoreira 3y ago

> What's the regulatory situation for selling energy back to the grid? You don't sell the energy. Well you kind of do, it's just that they don't pay you in real money. They pay you "kWh credits" which are theorized to offset your consumption in the winter months where solar energy production is lowest. The catch? Those credits expire in one year if unused. They do not accumulate. So brazilians are financially incentivized to produce as much energy as they consume only. Any energy surplus means giving energy away to the power company for free. Since solar energy production is variable, one also needs to be clever with forecasting in order to estimate highs and lows so that they compensate for each other. Make the summers pay for the winters. I suppose one could simply work around all that regulatory nonsense by not actually generating any credits in the first place. Build a small system that generates less than needed since that still means significant energy cost reductions. Alternatively, increase energy consumption. Air conditioners are god's gift to brazilians but there are only so many you can buy before you run out of rooms to install them in. So that leaves... Converting any surplus energy into cryptocurrency instead of injecting it into the grid. They won't pay us? We'll pay ourselves by mining monero.

Affric 3y ago
> We'll pay ourselves by mining monero A policy which incentivises turning excess solar energy into one step above pure heat. Classic.
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  Well, it's solar energy. Pretty much as close to being pure heat as it gets. Completely wasted heat at that: before solar panels, all it did was heat up my home. In fact, I have to pay money every single day in order to run air conditioners to keep that heat out because otherwise it gets so hot I have a panic attack. The heat is actually harmful to me. With solar panels, I get to redirect that useless sun heat into those air conditioners. The result is more money in my wallet. It's perfect. Even if I were to mine cryptocurrency, it's still pure heat anyway. Sun's shining whether we want it or not. I'd just buy more panels so I can redirect more sun energy into computer chips instead of allowing it to uselessly heat up my backyard. Processors dissipating heat or backyard radiating away heat at night -- what's the difference? The system asked me for a hostname of sorts when I set it up. I named it "sun monetizer". Makes the sun useful for something. I used to hate the sun with every fiber of my being. Now I monetize it. The next step is realizing that cryptocurrencies make it possible to monetize the sun at industrial scales by serving as energy-to-money converters. Sun's gonna continue injecting heat into this earth whether we want it or not. Better make the most of it.
  - elzbardico 3y ago
    A big problem in Brasil is that most residential building are not built to be energy efficient and modern architecture is making this even worse. No isolation on roof and walls, giant glass planes everywhere.
    - matheusmoreira 3y ago
      Can thermal isolation help reduce air conditioning costs by keeping the heat out? I asked someone this once and they looked at me like I was insane. I got the impression this is only done in cold climates.
      - elzbardico 3y ago
        Yes. Even small retrofits like putting thermal isolation under the tiles or in the attic's floor make a sizable difference. I did this in a home I lived in Rio de Janeiro. If you are thinking about building in brasil, instead of traditional masonry, consider using insulated structural panels, called EPS in brazil. I friend of mine did a home using this system in Rio de Janeiro where you easily get over 42C (107 F) outside in the summer. It works fantastically. Energy in Brasil used to be way less expensive, and traditional masonry and concrete construction is not very friendly to insulation unless you do like the germans that have double walls with the insulation in the middle. So, culturally, insulation is kind of an alien concept for a lot of people and even engineers.
        matheusmoreira 3y ago
        Thanks for the tips!! I do want to get a home of my own design constructed in the future. I've been compiling resources on the matter and the information you provided is extremely useful.
toomuchtodo 3y ago
The term of art for this is net metering. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_metering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_metering
fmobus 3y ago
> The catch? Those credits expire in one year if unused. They do not accumulate. That's kinda fucked up. But well, for my friend in the South, where winters are miserably cold and houses have no heating infrastructure, using the accumulated energy credits during the winter is easy. Heck, there are even crypto-mining heaters available these days, so it kinda works best for him I guess?
elzbardico 3y ago
Most of brazil have a hot climate, so, nightly usage of air-conditioning is high. You don't even need to wait for winter to use those credits. And if you have money to do so, buying an electric car can be also a good usage of those credits.
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  > Most of brazil have a hot climate, so, nightly usage of air-conditioning is high. Yeah. My air conditioners are running pretty much 24/7. > You don't even need to wait for winter to use those credits. Depends on how much energy you generate. Solar power can easily generate the amount of energy consumed by air conditioning. Just gotta make sure peak summer output generates enough surplus to cover the needs of the other seasons. My solar system generates between 400-1100 kWh/month. It's always been enough and if my needs change I can always expand capacity. > And if you have money to do so, buying an electric car can be also a good usage of those credits. Absolutely. That's my next goal. I don't want to pay for gasoline anymore. I think it's still a bit too early for that, electric cars need to get cheaper for it to be truly worth it.
- DavidNielsen 3y ago
  Add to this that double glazing and isolation are non-existent, then a lot of energy is wasted.
  - matheusmoreira 3y ago
    > double glazing Didn't know about this! Added to the wishlist.