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I agree phones and Covid play a big part in reading ability decline. But the last reason mentioned is a big one too. Curriculums have moved away from proven tea

I agree phones and Covid play a big part in reading ability decline. But the last reason mentioned is a big one too. Curriculums have moved away from proven teaching techniques into psuedo science at the same time public schools focus less and less on teaching, and more on being social institutions. Moving away from phonics, dumbing down math, practically ignoring science. Coupled with the increasingly common practice of grade inflation, kids are hitting college woefully unprepared. The best decision my wife and I have made in our lives was to get our kids into private school 18 months ago. The difference is like night and day.

couchand 3y ago
This hasn't been our experience. Our public school kids are learning things we never would have dreamed of at their age. I distinctly remember being surpised at the worksheets on platonic solids that my kindergartener was assigned.
- whoknowsidont 3y ago
  I'd be interested to know where you live vs where the parent poster lives.
  - Scubabear68 3y ago
    Yes, location is everything. I live in NJ in the United States. Public schools here are all over the place, housing prices in towns with good school districts is remarkably higher than those with poor ones. Sadly we live in a town with a poor one.
- flerchin 3y ago
  This has been my experience too. Educational standards are _not lower_ for math and reading than they were when I attended American public schools a generation ago. (by definition, because my children are in it now.)
adamhartenz 3y ago
This comment definitely sounds like someone yelling at the clouds. The fact it starts with "I agree" is a red flag. These are stats and facts that can be looked up. There is nothing to "agree" or "disagree" with. We know that reading for kids (an adults) increased by a significant amount during lockdowns. We know that kids write and read a lot more, in the form of social messages to friends using there phone than any previous generation. We know that the world in changed, and these young kids are kinder, and more socially aware than any of us ever were. Our generation is all about written communication, but for them, video chat is a new normal. That could be in the workplace, but also social media. Short form videos have completely replaced what we used to do on message boards or forums. That is for the general population though. The top academics are doing just as good or better than the top academics from any other older generations. Even though it seems like the Flynn Effect tells us otherwise, that is not the whole story. Anyway. I am always skeptical of old people saying anything negative about younger generations. Because it almost always turns out to be untrue.
taway_6PplYu5 3y ago
I don't want to debate your claims about the state of public schools, but wonder if it is worth thinking about what could cause this, and consider the types of investments our country is making in public schools and who is deciding on curriculums. For example, in Wisconsin, one report finds that teacher pay is lower than it was a decade ago. https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/education/2023/11/30/wisconsin-teacher-pay-is-lower-than-it-was-a-decade-ago-new-report-finds/71742675007/ https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/education/20... Wisconsin has a budget surplus, the money is there, And in October 2023, the governer gave raises to all state employees -- except UW emploees. https://wisconsinexaminer.com/brief/lawmakers-approve-raises-for-all-but-uw-employees/ https://wisconsinexaminer.com/brief/lawmakers-approve-raises... People who work in public education talk about what appears to be a long-running organized campaign to attack public schools and intentionally degrade them. I'm tangential to the debate so don't have evidence at hand, but I can say that the evidence is strong enough that there is a valid case. Obviously without hearing the other side we cannot draw a conclusion, I'm only claiming that the case is sufficient that it is worth hearing.
- Scubabear68 3y ago
  In our case, you can track school performance via state standardized test scores. Yea, they are somewhat flawed and biased, but can still give you a very good idea of how good of a job a public school is doing. In our case, our kids (now aged 15 and 12) were getting B’s and high C’a, but were both scoring single digits on standardized tests for math, English and science. As it turns out our district overall state test were abysmally low. The net result is general flight from the public system, either via home schooling, “Choice” programs that let you go to other districts if yours is inadequate, or private school. Graphing our school enrollment numbers has gone from about 970 students in district in 2017 to 670 in 2023.
  - thwarted 3y ago
    In our case, our kids (now aged 15 and 12) were getting B’s and high C’a, but were both scoring single digits on standardized tests for math, English and science. Can you expound upon "scoring single digits on standards tests" a little more? I can't figure out how these are related as I have some context for where "B's and C's" fall on the grading scale, I don't have context for where "single digits on standardized tests" fall on a scale.

couchand 3y ago

This hasn't been our experience. Our public school kids are learning things we never would have dreamed of at their age. I distinctly remember being surpised at the worksheets on platonic solids that my kindergartener was assigned.

whoknowsidont 3y ago
I'd be interested to know where you live vs where the parent poster lives.
- Scubabear68 3y ago
  Yes, location is everything. I live in NJ in the United States. Public schools here are all over the place, housing prices in towns with good school districts is remarkably higher than those with poor ones. Sadly we live in a town with a poor one.
flerchin 3y ago
This has been my experience too. Educational standards are _not lower_ for math and reading than they were when I attended American public schools a generation ago. (by definition, because my children are in it now.)

adamhartenz 3y ago

This comment definitely sounds like someone yelling at the clouds. The fact it starts with "I agree" is a red flag. These are stats and facts that can be looked up. There is nothing to "agree" or "disagree" with. We know that reading for kids (an adults) increased by a significant amount during lockdowns. We know that kids write and read a lot more, in the form of social messages to friends using there phone than any previous generation. We know that the world in changed, and these young kids are kinder, and more socially aware than any of us ever were. Our generation is all about written communication, but for them, video chat is a new normal. That could be in the workplace, but also social media. Short form videos have completely replaced what we used to do on message boards or forums. That is for the general population though. The top academics are doing just as good or better than the top academics from any other older generations. Even though it seems like the Flynn Effect tells us otherwise, that is not the whole story. Anyway. I am always skeptical of old people saying anything negative about younger generations. Because it almost always turns out to be untrue.

taway_6PplYu5 3y ago

I don't want to debate your claims about the state of public schools, but wonder if it is worth thinking about what could cause this, and consider the types of investments our country is making in public schools and who is deciding on curriculums. For example, in Wisconsin, one report finds that teacher pay is lower than it was a decade ago. https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/education/2023/11/30/wisconsin-teacher-pay-is-lower-than-it-was-a-decade-ago-new-report-finds/71742675007/ https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/education/20... Wisconsin has a budget surplus, the money is there, And in October 2023, the governer gave raises to all state employees -- except UW emploees. https://wisconsinexaminer.com/brief/lawmakers-approve-raises-for-all-but-uw-employees/ https://wisconsinexaminer.com/brief/lawmakers-approve-raises... People who work in public education talk about what appears to be a long-running organized campaign to attack public schools and intentionally degrade them. I'm tangential to the debate so don't have evidence at hand, but I can say that the evidence is strong enough that there is a valid case. Obviously without hearing the other side we cannot draw a conclusion, I'm only claiming that the case is sufficient that it is worth hearing.

Scubabear68 3y ago
In our case, you can track school performance via state standardized test scores. Yea, they are somewhat flawed and biased, but can still give you a very good idea of how good of a job a public school is doing. In our case, our kids (now aged 15 and 12) were getting B’s and high C’a, but were both scoring single digits on standardized tests for math, English and science. As it turns out our district overall state test were abysmally low. The net result is general flight from the public system, either via home schooling, “Choice” programs that let you go to other districts if yours is inadequate, or private school. Graphing our school enrollment numbers has gone from about 970 students in district in 2017 to 670 in 2023.
- thwarted 3y ago
  In our case, our kids (now aged 15 and 12) were getting B’s and high C’a, but were both scoring single digits on standardized tests for math, English and science. Can you expound upon "scoring single digits on standards tests" a little more? I can't figure out how these are related as I have some context for where "B's and C's" fall on the grading scale, I don't have context for where "single digits on standardized tests" fall on a scale.