5 ms·

You edited out their jobs, but I saw before the edit. Without restating those jobs I'll say that one would have had exposure to emissions from 2-cycle mixed oil

You edited out their jobs, but I saw before the edit. Without restating those jobs I'll say that one would have had exposure to emissions from 2-cycle mixed oil/gasoline engines. The other would have had exposure to lead solder fumes.

genter 3y ago
I edited that out because I thought it was superfluous, but you're right. Also the plumber smoked. (To those curious, one was a logger, the other was a plumber.)
- genter 3y ago
  Upon further thought, the Romans were exposed to lead, their water pipes were made from lead (installed by plumbers), not to mention pewter and bronze objects. And they were certainly breathing lots of smoke from their cooking fires. Although wood smoke is probably less hazardous than two stroke oil.
  - plasticchris 3y ago
    They also sweetened their wine with lead acetate…
  - Anotheroneagain 3y ago
    They also got a lot of copper from those. It's well documented that brains with Alzheimer's lack copper. It's probably all that it is. The fight against copper has no scientific basic, it's actually hard to overdose on it, our bodies can handle it very well.
    - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
      Skimming a review article on this topic this appears to be the since at least partially discredited amyloid beta Alzheimer's hypothesis, and studies are divided on whether too much or too little copper is a problem. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5810277/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5810277/ : Scientific evidence has shown that metal ion binding to β-amyloid accelerates amyloid aggregation, which could finally damage the neurons in AD (Pithadia and Lim, 2012). The involvement of copper in AD is controversial, as some studies show copper deficiency in AD, and consequently a need to enhance copper levels (Borchardt et al., 1999; Kessler et al., 2005, 2008a,b; Exley, 2006; Jiao and Yang, 2007; Vural et al., 2010; Kaden et al., 2011; Exley et al., 2012), while other data point to copper overload and therefore a need to reduce copper levels (Cherny et al., 2001; Sparks et al., 2006; Hua et al., 2011; Luo et al., 2011; Ceccom et al., 2012; Eskici and Axelsen, 2012; Brewer, 2014; Squitti et al., 2014b; Yu et al., 2015). An aberrant copper homeostasis with an increase in the labile pool of copper and a decrease in the copper bound to protein is the main up-dated interpretation (Kepp, 2016; Squitti et al., 2016). In this paper, the role of metal ions, particularly copper, in AD is reviewed and discussed.
      - Anotheroneagain 3y ago
        You are trying to impress with the number of sources, but it's all from animal models, or even speculative, while the data for its absence is from actual autopsies. Also, it isn't something that is difficult or expensive to try.
        anonymouskimmer 3y ago
        I'm not trying to impress jack all. I literally just block quoted the text of the review article most relevant to the point. I spot checked starting from newer to older the too much copper citations and the third one I checked, "Brewer, 2014", though it itself cites animal studies, was about copper in humans (specifically inorganic copper as a hypothesized problem, versus organic copper which he says is fine). The Brewer paper references "Squitti et al., 2005" which was a study of humans showing elevated copper (of inorganic origin? I didn't read further than the abstract) and a couple of other things in Alzheimer's patients. So copper from food? Good. Copper from water pipes? Bad. Chelated copper from supplements? I don't know. Maybe further reading would show other results. Again, I just skimmed this.
        Anotheroneagain 3y ago
        >Copper from water pipes? Bad. There is literally no reason to believe this. Plus, the amounts leeched from pipes are nowhere near high enough to provide even the paltry RDA. People used to cobsume more. They used to use bronze or copper cookware. It's bullshit. You are only coming up with excuses why it isn't copper. Why? I suppose because the cure would be almost free.
        anonymouskimmer 3y ago
        > There is literally no reason to believe this. Brewer disagrees (copper from pipes or cookware is inorganic copper). > You are only coming up with excuses why it isn't copper. I genuinely don't know. I just found your claim interesting and searched for articles on it. And what I found is conflicting information.

genter 3y ago

I edited that out because I thought it was superfluous, but you're right. Also the plumber smoked. (To those curious, one was a logger, the other was a plumber.)

genter 3y ago
Upon further thought, the Romans were exposed to lead, their water pipes were made from lead (installed by plumbers), not to mention pewter and bronze objects. And they were certainly breathing lots of smoke from their cooking fires. Although wood smoke is probably less hazardous than two stroke oil.
- plasticchris 3y ago
  They also sweetened their wine with lead acetate…
- Anotheroneagain 3y ago
  They also got a lot of copper from those. It's well documented that brains with Alzheimer's lack copper. It's probably all that it is. The fight against copper has no scientific basic, it's actually hard to overdose on it, our bodies can handle it very well.
  - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
    Skimming a review article on this topic this appears to be the since at least partially discredited amyloid beta Alzheimer's hypothesis, and studies are divided on whether too much or too little copper is a problem. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5810277/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5810277/ : Scientific evidence has shown that metal ion binding to β-amyloid accelerates amyloid aggregation, which could finally damage the neurons in AD (Pithadia and Lim, 2012). The involvement of copper in AD is controversial, as some studies show copper deficiency in AD, and consequently a need to enhance copper levels (Borchardt et al., 1999; Kessler et al., 2005, 2008a,b; Exley, 2006; Jiao and Yang, 2007; Vural et al., 2010; Kaden et al., 2011; Exley et al., 2012), while other data point to copper overload and therefore a need to reduce copper levels (Cherny et al., 2001; Sparks et al., 2006; Hua et al., 2011; Luo et al., 2011; Ceccom et al., 2012; Eskici and Axelsen, 2012; Brewer, 2014; Squitti et al., 2014b; Yu et al., 2015). An aberrant copper homeostasis with an increase in the labile pool of copper and a decrease in the copper bound to protein is the main up-dated interpretation (Kepp, 2016; Squitti et al., 2016). In this paper, the role of metal ions, particularly copper, in AD is reviewed and discussed.
    - Anotheroneagain 3y ago
      You are trying to impress with the number of sources, but it's all from animal models, or even speculative, while the data for its absence is from actual autopsies. Also, it isn't something that is difficult or expensive to try.
      - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
        I'm not trying to impress jack all. I literally just block quoted the text of the review article most relevant to the point. I spot checked starting from newer to older the too much copper citations and the third one I checked, "Brewer, 2014", though it itself cites animal studies, was about copper in humans (specifically inorganic copper as a hypothesized problem, versus organic copper which he says is fine). The Brewer paper references "Squitti et al., 2005" which was a study of humans showing elevated copper (of inorganic origin? I didn't read further than the abstract) and a couple of other things in Alzheimer's patients. So copper from food? Good. Copper from water pipes? Bad. Chelated copper from supplements? I don't know. Maybe further reading would show other results. Again, I just skimmed this.
        Anotheroneagain 3y ago
        >Copper from water pipes? Bad. There is literally no reason to believe this. Plus, the amounts leeched from pipes are nowhere near high enough to provide even the paltry RDA. People used to cobsume more. They used to use bronze or copper cookware. It's bullshit. You are only coming up with excuses why it isn't copper. Why? I suppose because the cure would be almost free.
        anonymouskimmer 3y ago
        > There is literally no reason to believe this. Brewer disagrees (copper from pipes or cookware is inorganic copper). > You are only coming up with excuses why it isn't copper. I genuinely don't know. I just found your claim interesting and searched for articles on it. And what I found is conflicting information.