6 ms·

It sounds like men should either not get married, or if they do, then endeavor quite seriously to keep their wives happy. Personally, I have to say I've never r

It sounds like men should either not get married, or if they do, then endeavor quite seriously to keep their wives happy. Personally, I have to say I've never really "gotten it" so-to-speak - I really never felt a desire to get married and/or have children, so this is no great worry for me. But I do normally feel quite counter-cultural when I express it.

cjbgkagh 3y ago
Once people are in the position to gain from not being happy they will never be happy, "appetite comes with eating".
- andruby 3y ago
  I don’t understand. What is this trying to say? Sorry if this is a common expression.
  - cjbgkagh 3y ago
    [dead]
  - useless_foghorn 3y ago
    “If you are profiting from being unhappy you will find ways and reasons to be unhappy.” I believe the idea expressed in ‘appetite comes with eating’ is that your desire to indulge in an activity is correlated (caused even) with that activity. IE skydivers will likely have a larger appetite or desire for skydiving than a layman. In a larger context I believe cjbgkagh is arguing that women can retain an advantageous position in a marriage by pretending or presenting unhappiness because exiting a marital contract would be an especially poor outcome her partner.
    - cjbgkagh 3y ago
      It's more of a general phenomena that I believe commonly applies to this specific case. Often there is an assumption that a demand can be satiated once met, but quite often instead the demands simply increase.
wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
There is a great joy in building a deep bond with a partner. There are definitely difficulties, but no need to throw out the baby with bathwater, if done right a partner & children are one of the biggest joys & sources of meaning for life.
- silverquiet 3y ago
  I can't seem to maintain an interest in such a bond, and I've long since stopped believing in meaning. As I said, I'm aware that that sort of talk is frowned upon. But given the number of men estranged from their children (the number of kids being raised by single mothers is, I understand, at an all-time high in the US), and the consistently high divorce rate (lower these days probably only because the marriage rate is also lower), I don't think that I'm actually particularly unique.
  - wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
    It sound you are looking for datapoint to easier accept your lack of meaning in life. You can also do the opposite and look at the happy partners & families to prove yourself wrong. But I understand, however I hope you find it, in which way works for you, it does make life much richer. For me family is one of them & buddhism another one. If I can give advice, the easiest way to experience meaning is to serve & help others. Easiest is to do voluntary work in obvious helpful things like food serving etc. Something where you just enjoy & give and not think deeper about what the point of it all is. I think there is quite a bit of nihilism in Western evolutionary materialism (all our feelings are just side effect of evolution). But that's a very limited view on reality. Not sure if that's also part of your experience, but I do see this cause similar feelings to smart & technical people around.
    - silverquiet 3y ago
      Lol, I was raised Catholic; the serve others thing is quite a big part of the dogma, and I don't disagree with that necessarily (unlike quite a bit of the rest of that religion), but that doesn't mean that it works for everyone. Some people are just wired differently; the meaninglessness creeps in no matter the volunteer organization; the therapy, the drugs (licit or otherwise). It's an experience since young childhood and seems unlikely to change markedly. I'm actually quite happy that it's not something I'll ever have to subject a child to (and the probable hellscape that we're leaving them; glad I'll never have to have that conversation either). It certainly could be a post-facto rationalization on my part, but perhaps it's just the way I am and ever was. Honestly, accepting that has brought me peace as much as anything.
anonym29 3y ago
"Happy Wife, Happy Life"
- slowhadoken 3y ago
  This always sounded abusive to me. Like the wife was holding the husband emotionally hostage.
  - andruby 3y ago
    I don’t think it’s suppose to sound like that. At least for me and the situations I have heard it, it’s a genuine expression that if you make your partner happy, it’ll also make your life (together) happy. It works very well for me. We both appreciate each other and actively make an effort to make one another happy.
    - slowhadoken 3y ago
      Yeah it’s kind of the wife’s job to make herself happy. I mean it’s probably not in traditional wedding vows for a reason.
  - rapind 3y ago
    I don't think it needs to be "wife" other than to rhyme. Having a happy partner instead of an unhappy partner (regardless of gender) is certainly better (speaking from experience). This matters in business too.
    - slowhadoken 3y ago
      I mean you just compared a wife to a business partner so that’s not a great sign.
      - rapind 3y ago
        That's a pretty creative translation of what I actually said.
freitzkriesler2 3y ago
Happy wife happy life is a lie. Being a doormat to your partner is a great way to end up miserable. You will have arguments and challenges. Those are good things and sometimes it needs to be said and worked out . Marriage was always a partnership and a business in the past. Treat it as such anx you'll find it works way better.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  >Happy wife happy life is a lie. It is true, but an incomplete instruction for life happiness . What more do you want from a platitude? Good luck having a happy life with a miserable wife.
  - c0pium 3y ago
    If you consider why it’s only good advice for lesbians you’ll be on the path of understanding.
  - bitshiftfaced 3y ago
    It may be true but not actionable. For example, some wives may be happy regardless of how much their partners bend over backwards to please them. Their partners are then more likely to have a happy life. Or, maybe your wife will be miserable no matter what you do. You're less likely to have a happy life. This is why I believe the most important step in vetting a spouse is to spend a long time with them first, the longer the better. How happy you both are isn't likely to change much after you get married.
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      It is absolutely actionable. Maybe not for every person in every situation, but that doesn't mean it isn't good advice. It seems crazy to me that you think people are incapable of doing things to add or detract from the happiness of others. If I treat my wife with kindness and care in the morning, she will be much happier than if I hypothetically berated or beat her.
cobertos 3y ago
> then endeavor quite seriously to keep their wives happy Why not just find someone who is already content living their life single but enjoys the added social aspects of a relationship? That plus someone where those social aspects happen naturally without a lot of using the finite motivational energy. Then there's no expectation or perceived responsibility to have a sort of dependency relationship, and the happy social reinforcing moments happen naturally.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  >Why not just find someone who is already content living their life single but enjoys the added social aspects of a relationship? The two ideas aren't mutually exclusive. Even happy and independent people have ups and downs, and can benefit from someone enthusiastically helping them promote their happiness. It is a win win win for everyone involved. The recipient of support is even happier, the supporter gets to enjoy the process of making the other happy, and then the supporter get the company of a very happy person. Ideally this is bidirectional with each partner playing both roles. It doesn't use finite motivational energy. It creates net positive energy.
AussieWog93 3y ago
>It sounds like men should either not get married, or if they do, then endeavor quite seriously to keep their wives happy. I'm happily married, and in the sense of being counter-cultural would be in completely the other end of the spectrum (very conservative about family, intend on having 6-8 kids that I will cherish even when they're adults). That said, I think you've hit the nail on the head about "happy wife, happy life". It's important to basically dedicate your life to being in service to her, but on the flip side it's important for her to do the same. This level of dedication is almost counter-cultural in a sense, because you're not putting yourself first, but it's absolutely worth it in the long run. On a visceral level, you feel always loved, always important, always worthy.
- svnt 3y ago
  You are apparently speaking from a Christian perspective. What do you do when after childbirth your spouse exits that reciprocal context and begins consuming you as a resource, but not before experimenting with narratives that maximize sympathy for her, which, as you can probably guess, make you the Disney villain.
- silverquiet 3y ago
  That's great, but you should realize that not everyone is wired the same way, and that's fine - you'll have a hard time catching me criticizing anyone's choices here. All I can really offer is my own feelings and observations as someone who's been around the block a bit these days. > intend on having 6-8 kids that I will cherish even when they're adults There's a wonderful Mike Tyson quote that everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. I assure you that it's quite a rare individual who gets married and has kids with the intent of despising their spouse and estranging themselves from their children. Sometimes it works out, and other times it doesn't.
mgaunard 3y ago
Usually the idea of marriage comes from a romantic idea of building something together with a partner. If you ignore the romance, and only consider the practicalities, there is no good reason to get married. It doesn't offer significant rights or benefits and mostly puts you at risk and restricts your option. Me, I've been married, and I know I'll likely do it again. Not for personal gain, but because I'm a fool who believes in love.

cjbgkagh 3y ago

Once people are in the position to gain from not being happy they will never be happy, "appetite comes with eating".

andruby 3y ago
I don’t understand. What is this trying to say? Sorry if this is a common expression.
- cjbgkagh 3y ago
  [dead]
- useless_foghorn 3y ago
  “If you are profiting from being unhappy you will find ways and reasons to be unhappy.” I believe the idea expressed in ‘appetite comes with eating’ is that your desire to indulge in an activity is correlated (caused even) with that activity. IE skydivers will likely have a larger appetite or desire for skydiving than a layman. In a larger context I believe cjbgkagh is arguing that women can retain an advantageous position in a marriage by pretending or presenting unhappiness because exiting a marital contract would be an especially poor outcome her partner.
  - cjbgkagh 3y ago
    It's more of a general phenomena that I believe commonly applies to this specific case. Often there is an assumption that a demand can be satiated once met, but quite often instead the demands simply increase.

wouldbecouldbe 3y ago

There is a great joy in building a deep bond with a partner. There are definitely difficulties, but no need to throw out the baby with bathwater, if done right a partner & children are one of the biggest joys & sources of meaning for life.

silverquiet 3y ago
I can't seem to maintain an interest in such a bond, and I've long since stopped believing in meaning. As I said, I'm aware that that sort of talk is frowned upon. But given the number of men estranged from their children (the number of kids being raised by single mothers is, I understand, at an all-time high in the US), and the consistently high divorce rate (lower these days probably only because the marriage rate is also lower), I don't think that I'm actually particularly unique.
- wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
  It sound you are looking for datapoint to easier accept your lack of meaning in life. You can also do the opposite and look at the happy partners & families to prove yourself wrong. But I understand, however I hope you find it, in which way works for you, it does make life much richer. For me family is one of them & buddhism another one. If I can give advice, the easiest way to experience meaning is to serve & help others. Easiest is to do voluntary work in obvious helpful things like food serving etc. Something where you just enjoy & give and not think deeper about what the point of it all is. I think there is quite a bit of nihilism in Western evolutionary materialism (all our feelings are just side effect of evolution). But that's a very limited view on reality. Not sure if that's also part of your experience, but I do see this cause similar feelings to smart & technical people around.
  - silverquiet 3y ago
    Lol, I was raised Catholic; the serve others thing is quite a big part of the dogma, and I don't disagree with that necessarily (unlike quite a bit of the rest of that religion), but that doesn't mean that it works for everyone. Some people are just wired differently; the meaninglessness creeps in no matter the volunteer organization; the therapy, the drugs (licit or otherwise). It's an experience since young childhood and seems unlikely to change markedly. I'm actually quite happy that it's not something I'll ever have to subject a child to (and the probable hellscape that we're leaving them; glad I'll never have to have that conversation either). It certainly could be a post-facto rationalization on my part, but perhaps it's just the way I am and ever was. Honestly, accepting that has brought me peace as much as anything.

anonym29 3y ago

"Happy Wife, Happy Life"

slowhadoken 3y ago
This always sounded abusive to me. Like the wife was holding the husband emotionally hostage.
- andruby 3y ago
  I don’t think it’s suppose to sound like that. At least for me and the situations I have heard it, it’s a genuine expression that if you make your partner happy, it’ll also make your life (together) happy. It works very well for me. We both appreciate each other and actively make an effort to make one another happy.
  - slowhadoken 3y ago
    Yeah it’s kind of the wife’s job to make herself happy. I mean it’s probably not in traditional wedding vows for a reason.
- rapind 3y ago
  I don't think it needs to be "wife" other than to rhyme. Having a happy partner instead of an unhappy partner (regardless of gender) is certainly better (speaking from experience). This matters in business too.
  - slowhadoken 3y ago
    I mean you just compared a wife to a business partner so that’s not a great sign.
    - rapind 3y ago
      That's a pretty creative translation of what I actually said.

freitzkriesler2 3y ago

Happy wife happy life is a lie. Being a doormat to your partner is a great way to end up miserable. You will have arguments and challenges. Those are good things and sometimes it needs to be said and worked out . Marriage was always a partnership and a business in the past. Treat it as such anx you'll find it works way better.

s1artibartfast 3y ago
>Happy wife happy life is a lie. It is true, but an incomplete instruction for life happiness . What more do you want from a platitude? Good luck having a happy life with a miserable wife.
- c0pium 3y ago
  If you consider why it’s only good advice for lesbians you’ll be on the path of understanding.
- bitshiftfaced 3y ago
  It may be true but not actionable. For example, some wives may be happy regardless of how much their partners bend over backwards to please them. Their partners are then more likely to have a happy life. Or, maybe your wife will be miserable no matter what you do. You're less likely to have a happy life. This is why I believe the most important step in vetting a spouse is to spend a long time with them first, the longer the better. How happy you both are isn't likely to change much after you get married.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    It is absolutely actionable. Maybe not for every person in every situation, but that doesn't mean it isn't good advice. It seems crazy to me that you think people are incapable of doing things to add or detract from the happiness of others. If I treat my wife with kindness and care in the morning, she will be much happier than if I hypothetically berated or beat her.

cobertos 3y ago

> then endeavor quite seriously to keep their wives happy Why not just find someone who is already content living their life single but enjoys the added social aspects of a relationship? That plus someone where those social aspects happen naturally without a lot of using the finite motivational energy. Then there's no expectation or perceived responsibility to have a sort of dependency relationship, and the happy social reinforcing moments happen naturally.

s1artibartfast 3y ago
>Why not just find someone who is already content living their life single but enjoys the added social aspects of a relationship? The two ideas aren't mutually exclusive. Even happy and independent people have ups and downs, and can benefit from someone enthusiastically helping them promote their happiness. It is a win win win for everyone involved. The recipient of support is even happier, the supporter gets to enjoy the process of making the other happy, and then the supporter get the company of a very happy person. Ideally this is bidirectional with each partner playing both roles. It doesn't use finite motivational energy. It creates net positive energy.

AussieWog93 3y ago

>It sounds like men should either not get married, or if they do, then endeavor quite seriously to keep their wives happy. I'm happily married, and in the sense of being counter-cultural would be in completely the other end of the spectrum (very conservative about family, intend on having 6-8 kids that I will cherish even when they're adults). That said, I think you've hit the nail on the head about "happy wife, happy life". It's important to basically dedicate your life to being in service to her, but on the flip side it's important for her to do the same. This level of dedication is almost counter-cultural in a sense, because you're not putting yourself first, but it's absolutely worth it in the long run. On a visceral level, you feel always loved, always important, always worthy.

svnt 3y ago
You are apparently speaking from a Christian perspective. What do you do when after childbirth your spouse exits that reciprocal context and begins consuming you as a resource, but not before experimenting with narratives that maximize sympathy for her, which, as you can probably guess, make you the Disney villain.
silverquiet 3y ago
That's great, but you should realize that not everyone is wired the same way, and that's fine - you'll have a hard time catching me criticizing anyone's choices here. All I can really offer is my own feelings and observations as someone who's been around the block a bit these days. > intend on having 6-8 kids that I will cherish even when they're adults There's a wonderful Mike Tyson quote that everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. I assure you that it's quite a rare individual who gets married and has kids with the intent of despising their spouse and estranging themselves from their children. Sometimes it works out, and other times it doesn't.

mgaunard 3y ago

Usually the idea of marriage comes from a romantic idea of building something together with a partner. If you ignore the romance, and only consider the practicalities, there is no good reason to get married. It doesn't offer significant rights or benefits and mostly puts you at risk and restricts your option. Me, I've been married, and I know I'll likely do it again. Not for personal gain, but because I'm a fool who believes in love.