4 ms·

Why make procreation appealing through economic safety and optimism, when you can just make contraception and abortion harder to acquire or straight up illegal?

Why make procreation appealing through economic safety and optimism, when you can just make contraception and abortion harder to acquire or straight up illegal? Something, something, America.

mc32 3y ago
On the other hand Iran, Indonesia and Nigeria have no problem with reproduction.
- borissk 3y ago
  In Muslim countries/societies there's usually a very strong pressure to have a lot of kids from the religious authorities.
  - kelipso 3y ago
    Another reason is they just get married earlier. Probably a plot of average age of first marriage and TFR would be negatively correlated.
    - t-3 3y ago
      Different family structures as well. It's a lot harder to take care of children with two adults rather than in a multi-generational household with grandparents, siblings, cousins, etc. Communities and expectations of childhood autonomy are also different - people won't call the cops if they see kids playing without adult supervision in most non-US countries.
revscat 3y ago
Politically this is the more palatable choice, as well. Conservatives love the idea of limiting access to contraception and abortion, and abhor the idea of giving people who aren’t corporations any kind of financial benefits.
- freedomben 3y ago
  Could you name some of these conservatives that love the idea of limiting access to contraception?
  - notpachet 3y ago
    As an initial datapoint for you, here are the 195 members of the House that voted against H.R. 8373 (aka the Right to Contraception Act) in 2022. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/117-2022/h385 https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/117-2022/h385 I'm sure you can find more data yourself, Google search isn't that far gone yet.
    - freedomben 3y ago
      This does seem like the best example so far, but I think on it's own it falls short of the original goalpost of Conservatives "love the idea of limiting access to contraception." Steelmanning, it would be interesting to hear from the opposition why they don't support the bill. For example, I could see an opponent argue that this is not something that should be done at the Federal level, and such an argument would not make that person "love[s] the idea of limiting access to contraception" as GP has asserted. I could also see some unease about defining it as a "right" because that can have significant legal implications.
      - notpachet 3y ago
        Well, I don't think you're necessarily going to find anyone who says they "love" the idea of limiting contraception access, so I may have been guilty of inadvertently signaling that I agree with the choice of phrase there.
  - okamiueru 3y ago
    Is... this sealioning? It's one of the easiest things to find endless examples of. I won't assume you are arguing in bad faith here, so, what have you done in an attempt to find the answer to that question?
borissk 3y ago
Interesting that Putin's regime follows similar philosophy - they recently started a big campaign against abortions, including forbidding abortions in private clinics.
- SXX 3y ago
  Russia demographics was terrible even 10 years ago because of all the past wars, starvation and past migration waves, etc. You can check out this video with subtitles from 6 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGfNZiCWW7c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGfNZiCWW7c It's in Russian, but subtitles with auto translation work great. And you can just check this website: https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/india/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/india/ Even before current war Russia had almost 1,000,000 death tall to COVID-19 and now likely close to 1M people left the country in recent migration waves and a lot of them will never come back. And war loses just tip of the iceberg.

Why make procreation appealing through economic safety and optimism, when you can just make contraception and abortion harder to acquire or straight up illegal? Something, something, America.

mc32 3y ago

On the other hand Iran, Indonesia and Nigeria have no problem with reproduction.

borissk 3y ago
In Muslim countries/societies there's usually a very strong pressure to have a lot of kids from the religious authorities.
- kelipso 3y ago
  Another reason is they just get married earlier. Probably a plot of average age of first marriage and TFR would be negatively correlated.
  - t-3 3y ago
    Different family structures as well. It's a lot harder to take care of children with two adults rather than in a multi-generational household with grandparents, siblings, cousins, etc. Communities and expectations of childhood autonomy are also different - people won't call the cops if they see kids playing without adult supervision in most non-US countries.

revscat 3y ago

Politically this is the more palatable choice, as well. Conservatives love the idea of limiting access to contraception and abortion, and abhor the idea of giving people who aren’t corporations any kind of financial benefits.

freedomben 3y ago
Could you name some of these conservatives that love the idea of limiting access to contraception?
- notpachet 3y ago
  As an initial datapoint for you, here are the 195 members of the House that voted against H.R. 8373 (aka the Right to Contraception Act) in 2022. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/117-2022/h385 https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/117-2022/h385 I'm sure you can find more data yourself, Google search isn't that far gone yet.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    This does seem like the best example so far, but I think on it's own it falls short of the original goalpost of Conservatives "love the idea of limiting access to contraception." Steelmanning, it would be interesting to hear from the opposition why they don't support the bill. For example, I could see an opponent argue that this is not something that should be done at the Federal level, and such an argument would not make that person "love[s] the idea of limiting access to contraception" as GP has asserted. I could also see some unease about defining it as a "right" because that can have significant legal implications.
    - notpachet 3y ago
      Well, I don't think you're necessarily going to find anyone who says they "love" the idea of limiting contraception access, so I may have been guilty of inadvertently signaling that I agree with the choice of phrase there.
- okamiueru 3y ago
  Is... this sealioning? It's one of the easiest things to find endless examples of. I won't assume you are arguing in bad faith here, so, what have you done in an attempt to find the answer to that question?

borissk 3y ago

Interesting that Putin's regime follows similar philosophy - they recently started a big campaign against abortions, including forbidding abortions in private clinics.

SXX 3y ago
Russia demographics was terrible even 10 years ago because of all the past wars, starvation and past migration waves, etc. You can check out this video with subtitles from 6 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGfNZiCWW7c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGfNZiCWW7c It's in Russian, but subtitles with auto translation work great. And you can just check this website: https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/india/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/india/ Even before current war Russia had almost 1,000,000 death tall to COVID-19 and now likely close to 1M people left the country in recent migration waves and a lot of them will never come back. And war loses just tip of the iceberg.