4 ms·

Interesting. Is this true consistently across institutions, and across disciplines? E.g., at TU Delft, VU, etc? In the US at least, the 4-year graduation rate

by zamfi 3y ago

Interesting. Is this true consistently across institutions, and across disciplines? E.g., at TU Delft, VU, etc? In the US at least, the 4-year graduation rate at e.g., MIT and Harvard are well above 90%, quite a bit higher than the national average.

jacquesm 3y ago
That was the national average, I suspect there are differences between the institutions themselves as well as between the disciplines. But there definitely is no implied assumption that if you start university that you will graduate.
- zamfi 3y ago
  Ah, fair. The US national average for “completion within 8 years” is not far off, about 60%. At US “elite” schools there is definitely an expectation of completion in 4 years, though not much stigma if you take longer—and students go through in cohorts with target graduation dates (“class of ‘25” or whatever).
- thaumasiotes 3y ago
  Why would you start if not to graduate?
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Why would you get married if it ended in divorce?
    - thaumasiotes 3y ago
      A divorce might happen if: - You decide to divorce your partner based on circumstances you weren't expecting. - Your partner decides to divorce you. In the analogy, those would correspond to you leaving the school, or the school expelling you. But the element of "circumstances you weren't expecting" has been completely lost. There's nothing more predictable than the university experience. Are 30% of Dutch undergraduates leaving because they stumbled into better opportunities? Are they leaving because they're surprised that "school, but more of it" feels like more school? Are they leaving because their schools find that they perform below what their credentials suggested? (And if it's that last one... thirty percent?)
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        The 30% figure is not all that strange internationally. That divorce question was a shorthand way of saying that not everything that you plan to do ends up running to completion. In general I think the answer is 'life happens' and not everything you start gets finished. People get disillusioned, they might see the future of the field they started to study in as imperiled or they might simply find that they do not see an advantage to completing the study. They might not have the self discipline to complete the run or they might have other needs or changing circumstances. They might simply get ill. They may find an opportunity that short-circuits the need for a degree. Lots of people do graduate but to assume up front that over a period of four years of someone's life things are so stable that you will always be able to graduate is to ignore the reality of the circumstances of a large number of people.
  - pezezin 3y ago
    Some people might realize that the degree they started is not what they expected, or it is way too difficult for them, so they will either move to another degree, or drop out of university and go to a trade school or similar.

by zamfi 3y ago

jacquesm 3y ago

That was the national average, I suspect there are differences between the institutions themselves as well as between the disciplines. But there definitely is no implied assumption that if you start university that you will graduate.

zamfi 3y ago
Ah, fair. The US national average for “completion within 8 years” is not far off, about 60%. At US “elite” schools there is definitely an expectation of completion in 4 years, though not much stigma if you take longer—and students go through in cohorts with target graduation dates (“class of ‘25” or whatever).
thaumasiotes 3y ago
Why would you start if not to graduate?
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Why would you get married if it ended in divorce?
  - thaumasiotes 3y ago
    A divorce might happen if: - You decide to divorce your partner based on circumstances you weren't expecting. - Your partner decides to divorce you. In the analogy, those would correspond to you leaving the school, or the school expelling you. But the element of "circumstances you weren't expecting" has been completely lost. There's nothing more predictable than the university experience. Are 30% of Dutch undergraduates leaving because they stumbled into better opportunities? Are they leaving because they're surprised that "school, but more of it" feels like more school? Are they leaving because their schools find that they perform below what their credentials suggested? (And if it's that last one... thirty percent?)
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      The 30% figure is not all that strange internationally. That divorce question was a shorthand way of saying that not everything that you plan to do ends up running to completion. In general I think the answer is 'life happens' and not everything you start gets finished. People get disillusioned, they might see the future of the field they started to study in as imperiled or they might simply find that they do not see an advantage to completing the study. They might not have the self discipline to complete the run or they might have other needs or changing circumstances. They might simply get ill. They may find an opportunity that short-circuits the need for a degree. Lots of people do graduate but to assume up front that over a period of four years of someone's life things are so stable that you will always be able to graduate is to ignore the reality of the circumstances of a large number of people.
- pezezin 3y ago
  Some people might realize that the degree they started is not what they expected, or it is way too difficult for them, so they will either move to another degree, or drop out of university and go to a trade school or similar.