4 ms·

Similar as the Netherlands: there 37 "hogescholen" marketing themselves as "University of Applied Sciences" in English that are not allowed to claim to be "uni

by em500 3y ago

Similar as the Netherlands: there 37 "hogescholen" marketing themselves as "University of Applied Sciences" in English that are not allowed to claim to be "universiteiten" in Dutch (a name is reserved for 14 more academically advanced institutions).

ulfw 3y ago
Same in Germany where Fachhoschulen (hogescholen) marketing themselves successfully to internationals as "University of Applied Sciences"
- distances 3y ago
  Same in Finland. "University of applies sciences" is not a real university but rather a lower level institution (ammattikorkeakoulu/yrkeshögskola/Fachhochschule). The difference is clear for locals but I bet many international students have been tricked by the English branding.
tgv 3y ago
Yep. Pretty misleading. They can use it because the law doesn't mention that word, and their management likes to pretend they are running a university, and because they were so focused on attracting foreign students.
- jorams 3y ago
  > They can use it because the law doesn't mention that word This is not true. The law defines which schools are allowed to call themselves "hogeschool", and also that the English translation of that word is "university of applied sciences" or, if limited to a specific job profile, "university of <said profile>". See https://zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl/stb-2017-97.html https://zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl/stb-2017-97.html > Het voeren van de naam hogeschool is voorbehouden aan de instellingen voor hoger onderwijs die zijn opgenomen in de bijlage van deze wet onder g, en aan rechtspersonen voor hoger onderwijs. Onder het voeren van de naam hogeschool wordt tevens het voeren van deze naam in samenstellingen verstaan, alsmede het voeren van de naam hogeschool in vertalingen. In afwijking van artikel 1.22, eerste lid, wordt de naam hogeschool in het Engels aangeduid met «university of applied sciences» dan wel, bij hogescholen die opleiden tot een bepaald beroepsprofiel, «university» met daarachter het vakgebied.
  - tgv 3y ago
    Ah, my bad. I didn't know the levels of delusion had gone that far.
TomK32 3y ago
Germany's and Austrias Universities of Applied Science use the same trick, Fachhochschulen is their German name.
- Tomte 3y ago
  Not anymore. They have all(?) rebranded to „Universität“ in German. But that‘s intentional. Former FHs are practically identical in law to universities. They all have the right to promotion, their masters and bachelors are legally identical to universities‘ masters and bachelors.
  - almostnormal 3y ago
    The former "Diplom" and "Diplom (FH)" were not identical. When those still existed the distinction of "Universität" and "Fachhochschule" was meaningful. The rebranding is a consequence of the old kind of degrees having been replaced by new ones, not just a marketing trick.
    - Tomte 3y ago
      Yes, you're right, the causal link is this.
  - KeplerBoy 3y ago
    Not in Austria. There's a very clear distinction between FHs and Universities. Not necessarily in reputation or level of education, but they are separated entities. And you cannot get a PhD from an FH.
  - mixed_bag 3y ago
    I initially wanted to say that this is entirely wrong, but when I went to do a quick check, I found this: https://www.che.de/2023/haelfte-der-bundeslaender-hat-promotionsrecht-fuer-fachhochschulen-haw/ https://www.che.de/2023/haelfte-der-bundeslaender-hat-promot... So my knowledge was not entirely up to date. In short, bachelors and masters are indeed legally identical to the ones acquired at universities, but most do not have the right to promotion. This mostly depends on the state they're in. And they are not allowed to call themselves "Universität" (though some have rebranded to "Hochschule"). All FHs that I know do have an option for getting a Phd through them, but they themselves can't grant them. Instead, an FH can cooperate with an Universität through a sort of loophole. The Phd students spend their time at the FH, but they have two supervisors and get their Phd from the "Universität". But it seems like it is only a matter of time until difference, too, is no more.
fl7305 3y ago
> reserved for 14 more academically advanced institutions So "Technische Universiteit Delft" is not an advanced institution? In either case, in Sweden "högskola" covers everything from small rinky-dink schools up to KTH (Kungliga Tekniska Högskola) in Stockholm and CTH (Chalmers Tekniska Högskola) which are among the top engineering schools in Sweden. Both award doctoral degrees. I have not heard many people in Sweden argue that KTH/CTH are not as advanced as the top universities. The difference is just that the technical schools do not have departments for the humanities.
- alexanderchr 3y ago
  But KTH and Chalmers are officially universities despite their names. Jönköping was not until recently.
  - ptx 3y ago
    > Jönköping was not until recently. It still isn't. Unlike KTH and Chalmers, "Jönköping University" is listed as a university college, not a university: https://www.uka.se/swedish-higher-education-authority/about-higher-education/universities-university-colleges-and-other-education-providers/higher-education-institutions https://www.uka.se/swedish-higher-education-authority/about-...
    - alexanderchr 3y ago
      Yeah you're right, sorry. I confused them with some other school that recently became a university.
- em500 3y ago
  > So "Technische Universiteit Delft" is not an advanced institution? It is, and it is also one of the 14 Dutch institutions that are allowed to use the Dutch "universiteit" name. But the English term "university" seems to be unprotected in the Netherlands.
  - Tijdreiziger 3y ago
jannw 3y ago
The distinction becoming vague is due to the changes regarding the Bologna Process/European Qualification Framework - whereby both Universities and Technical Colleges both award bachelor degrees (EQF6) ... and if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and awards the same EQF paper at the end, then it's the same! I've taught in a programme that is offered in both Universities and Technical Colleges (Law) ... and the distinction becomes that universities are more theory based, whereas technical colleges are more practical ... and that matriculating into a university offered masters programme in NL from a technical college awarded bachelors is made harder (even with the same EQF6 paper) ... not that any other university in the EU would care about the distinction!

by em500 3y ago

ulfw 3y ago

Same in Germany where Fachhoschulen (hogescholen) marketing themselves successfully to internationals as "University of Applied Sciences"

distances 3y ago
Same in Finland. "University of applies sciences" is not a real university but rather a lower level institution (ammattikorkeakoulu/yrkeshögskola/Fachhochschule). The difference is clear for locals but I bet many international students have been tricked by the English branding.

tgv 3y ago

Yep. Pretty misleading. They can use it because the law doesn't mention that word, and their management likes to pretend they are running a university, and because they were so focused on attracting foreign students.

jorams 3y ago
> They can use it because the law doesn't mention that word This is not true. The law defines which schools are allowed to call themselves "hogeschool", and also that the English translation of that word is "university of applied sciences" or, if limited to a specific job profile, "university of <said profile>". See https://zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl/stb-2017-97.html https://zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl/stb-2017-97.html > Het voeren van de naam hogeschool is voorbehouden aan de instellingen voor hoger onderwijs die zijn opgenomen in de bijlage van deze wet onder g, en aan rechtspersonen voor hoger onderwijs. Onder het voeren van de naam hogeschool wordt tevens het voeren van deze naam in samenstellingen verstaan, alsmede het voeren van de naam hogeschool in vertalingen. In afwijking van artikel 1.22, eerste lid, wordt de naam hogeschool in het Engels aangeduid met «university of applied sciences» dan wel, bij hogescholen die opleiden tot een bepaald beroepsprofiel, «university» met daarachter het vakgebied.
- tgv 3y ago
  Ah, my bad. I didn't know the levels of delusion had gone that far.

TomK32 3y ago

Germany's and Austrias Universities of Applied Science use the same trick, Fachhochschulen is their German name.

Tomte 3y ago
Not anymore. They have all(?) rebranded to „Universität“ in German. But that‘s intentional. Former FHs are practically identical in law to universities. They all have the right to promotion, their masters and bachelors are legally identical to universities‘ masters and bachelors.
- almostnormal 3y ago
  The former "Diplom" and "Diplom (FH)" were not identical. When those still existed the distinction of "Universität" and "Fachhochschule" was meaningful. The rebranding is a consequence of the old kind of degrees having been replaced by new ones, not just a marketing trick.
  - Tomte 3y ago
    Yes, you're right, the causal link is this.
- KeplerBoy 3y ago
  Not in Austria. There's a very clear distinction between FHs and Universities. Not necessarily in reputation or level of education, but they are separated entities. And you cannot get a PhD from an FH.
- mixed_bag 3y ago
  I initially wanted to say that this is entirely wrong, but when I went to do a quick check, I found this: https://www.che.de/2023/haelfte-der-bundeslaender-hat-promotionsrecht-fuer-fachhochschulen-haw/ https://www.che.de/2023/haelfte-der-bundeslaender-hat-promot... So my knowledge was not entirely up to date. In short, bachelors and masters are indeed legally identical to the ones acquired at universities, but most do not have the right to promotion. This mostly depends on the state they're in. And they are not allowed to call themselves "Universität" (though some have rebranded to "Hochschule"). All FHs that I know do have an option for getting a Phd through them, but they themselves can't grant them. Instead, an FH can cooperate with an Universität through a sort of loophole. The Phd students spend their time at the FH, but they have two supervisors and get their Phd from the "Universität". But it seems like it is only a matter of time until difference, too, is no more.

fl7305 3y ago

> reserved for 14 more academically advanced institutions So "Technische Universiteit Delft" is not an advanced institution? In either case, in Sweden "högskola" covers everything from small rinky-dink schools up to KTH (Kungliga Tekniska Högskola) in Stockholm and CTH (Chalmers Tekniska Högskola) which are among the top engineering schools in Sweden. Both award doctoral degrees. I have not heard many people in Sweden argue that KTH/CTH are not as advanced as the top universities. The difference is just that the technical schools do not have departments for the humanities.

alexanderchr 3y ago
But KTH and Chalmers are officially universities despite their names. Jönköping was not until recently.
- ptx 3y ago
  > Jönköping was not until recently. It still isn't. Unlike KTH and Chalmers, "Jönköping University" is listed as a university college, not a university: https://www.uka.se/swedish-higher-education-authority/about-higher-education/universities-university-colleges-and-other-education-providers/higher-education-institutions https://www.uka.se/swedish-higher-education-authority/about-...
  - alexanderchr 3y ago
    Yeah you're right, sorry. I confused them with some other school that recently became a university.
em500 3y ago
> So "Technische Universiteit Delft" is not an advanced institution? It is, and it is also one of the 14 Dutch institutions that are allowed to use the Dutch "universiteit" name. But the English term "university" seems to be unprotected in the Netherlands.
- Tijdreiziger 3y ago

jannw 3y ago

The distinction becoming vague is due to the changes regarding the Bologna Process/European Qualification Framework - whereby both Universities and Technical Colleges both award bachelor degrees (EQF6) ... and if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and awards the same EQF paper at the end, then it's the same! I've taught in a programme that is offered in both Universities and Technical Colleges (Law) ... and the distinction becomes that universities are more theory based, whereas technical colleges are more practical ... and that matriculating into a university offered masters programme in NL from a technical college awarded bachelors is made harder (even with the same EQF6 paper) ... not that any other university in the EU would care about the distinction!