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From what I've heard MIDI controllers are not good for learning piano. You really want weighted keys and a full 88 keys otherwise you won't learn the right hab

From what I've heard MIDI controllers are not good for learning piano. You really want weighted keys and a full 88 keys otherwise you won't learn the right habits or build finger strength. (I learned on a physical piano in person, so I can't speak personally about learning on a MIDI controller, but it sounds plausible to me.)

trust_bt_verify 3y ago
Many high end digital pianos have midi io and weighted keys.
williamcotton 3y ago
You can get MIDI keyboard with 88 weighted keys. Also, there are plenty of electric pianos, like the Wurlitzer or Rhodes, that have leas than 88 and only semi-weighted keys.
- solresol 3y ago
  You can also get midi interfaces for cathedral organs; letting you use the organ console to control midi devices, and also letting midi devices control the pipe relays in the pipe organ. Of course, whether you would want to use the OP's app in some giant cathedral is another question.
  - williamcotton 3y ago
    I had a Roland MIDI pedal keyboard for awhile, although not for organ music, but for accompanying guitar.
bluGill 3y ago
Strength is an issue, but most of that is 'the only good musician has been dead for at least 100 years'. A good keyboard plays just as well as a geal piano. You can feel the difference so we can't do a real ABX test, which means unlike audio gear we cannot do objective tests. organs have always had their own feel and plenty of greats have proven they sound great.
brudgers 3y ago
Most people don't have a place to put a Steinway, but you can put an MPK Mini MKIII and a laptop in a backpack. And what comes out of the speakers is the only thing that matters. Playing the piano means different things to different people.
- ghostpepper 3y ago
  Playing the piano and playing music with a 25-key mini keyboard controller are both laudable goals but that doesn't mean they're the same thing.
  - brudgers 3y ago
    It doesn’t mean that people don’t mean, playing a 25 key mini keyboard when they want to learn to play the piano, either. It just demonstrates the way in which people gatekeep music.
    - ghostpepper 3y ago
      There's a middle ground between the MPK mini and a steinway. You can get a used Yamaha P-series keyboard with 88 full-size, fully-weighted keys for a few hundred dollars. It won't fit in a backpack but it also won't teach you bad habits _if your goal is to learn to play the acoustic piano_. If your goal is to learn music theory or produce music or anything other than learn to play piano, the mpk is fine. No gatekeeping here.
lizhang 3y ago
i encourage everyone to get started on whatever device is most accessible. if you only have a 49 key midi keyboard without weighted keys, get started on that. just do enough to have some fun and see if this is something you'd like to continue. unless you are very serious about learning classical piano, better to build bad habits and correct them later than to allow this "88 key weighted keyboard only" gatekeeping to stop you from starting the journey
Rodeoclash 3y ago
The thing is, all pianos feel different. It's one of the downsides of the instrument is that you often end up having to play whatever piano is at the event (barring the aforementioned digital pianos that are portable). If all you have is a digital keyboard, don't let that stop you for learning it!
rawrawrawrr 3y ago
It's not a big deal imo. I started on digital piano, moved over a few years to a real piano. The brain adapts quickly.
modeless 3y ago
Weighted 88 key keyboards like Clavinovas are probably the most common pianos these days and they all support MIDI.
robbrown451 3y ago
Any digital piano functions as a midi controller, and many of them have weighted keys. And there are a few "pure" midi controllers that have 88 weighted keys, such as the M-Audio Hammer 88 or StudioLogic SL88.
- praash 3y ago
  The fact that weighted digital pianos are cheaper than equivalent plain MIDI keyboards is my pet peeve.
jerkstate 3y ago
my opinion (as a dad with kids learning piano, who learned piano as a kid) playing with 88 weighted keys is like learning to write cursive with a fountain pen - maybe artistically interesting, but doesn't matter for the core skills. My kids are learning on 61 key unweighted boards and they're learning melody, rhythm, notation, theory, and all of the things that are about music, not about the particular physiological requirements that a machine originally built in the 1600s imposed.
- booi 3y ago
  The transition from unweighted to weighted is actually pretty big. I would have preferred to learn on a good weighted keyboard or real piano tbh.
- pouyarad_ 3y ago
  I spent 10 years playing on a keyboard with unweighted keys and I'm rather certain it affected my desire to practice. The other large part was that my teacher did not spend much time on theory with me. Also, when recitals came around it was a big shift to playing on a grand piano with real weighted keys, and that, coupled with the nerves of playing in front of an audience, often led to mistakes. I think the weighted keys help you feel more physically connected to the instrument with more of your body. Unweighted keys require the same involvement as typing on a computer keyboard.
  - rrr_oh_man 3y ago
    > Unweighted keys require the same involvement as typing on a computer keyboard. …and who’d have any fun with that?
- crazygringo 3y ago
  Weighted keys aren't about requirements from the 1600s, they're about being able to achieve an extremely wide and sensitive dynamic range. Unweighted is fine if you're making synth sounds. And of course for understanding the things you've listed. But you can't actually play emotionally expressive piano music on them -- not in the style of classical or jazz. If you tried to play the Moonlight Sonata first movement, it would sound terrible, because the dynamic shadings couldn't be done. I'm not really sure how you've determined what "core skills" are. Sure, if your kids are only going to spend a couple years learning the very basics, and then move onto other things, then it's fine. But the heart and soul of piano music is in the precise touch to generate the dynamic sensitivity. If you want them to learn how to be emotionally expressive through music, playing either classical or jazz, weighted keys are essential. It's not piano otherwise -- it's a synth. (And going from unweighted to weighted isn't trivial. It's an entirely different muscle memory that needs to be developed. They're fundamentally different instruments.)
beautron 3y ago
I agree that weighted keys are preferable, but it's not about "building finger strength," but rather about building finger coordination. Your fingers are already plenty strong enough for weighted keys (especially once you learn how to take advantage of gravity in your technique). But weighted keys are crucial for building coordination. The resistance of the keys helps you calibrate the connection between your touch and the sound produced. You want both kinesthetic and aural feedback.
turtlebits 3y ago
MIDI doesn't automatically mean no weighted keys. All digital pianos have USB midi, and you can easily pick one a used one with weighted keys for a few hundred on craigslist. My Yamaha U1 piano also came with a box that lets you interface over MIDI.
- digger495 3y ago
  Some even have 5-pin DIN MIDI
digger495 3y ago
My fully-weighted, 88-key digital piano 100% has MIDI out.
vnorilo 3y ago
It will be quite a while before anything else besides the student just engaging with playing and sticking with it matters at all. IMO. To that end, I think a crappy plastic MIDI keyboard can do a better job than a steinway if it is easier to acquire and accommodate. Being at hand is more important than being just right at this stage. I say this as a music major, but it is not in any way a universal opinion to be sure.
jacquesm 3y ago
There are lots of controllers with weighted keys these days and plenty of entry level MIDI keyboards have excellent keyboards. The big advantage is that you don't need to tune them twice per year and that extra budget is either savings or you can spend it on more lessons. A physical piano is nice (and even those can have 'MIDI out' if you look around for a bit or are prepared to do some DIY) but really not a must. I have both here and spend much more time on my digital just because it is far more convenient, I can practice on it at any time of day even when the kids are sleeping and the feel of the keyboard is as good as the real thing (Yamaha P515, not the cheapest but very good quality).
hhyndman 3y ago
My Roland piano, with weighted keys, has MIDI.

trust_bt_verify 3y ago

Many high end digital pianos have midi io and weighted keys.

williamcotton 3y ago

You can get MIDI keyboard with 88 weighted keys. Also, there are plenty of electric pianos, like the Wurlitzer or Rhodes, that have leas than 88 and only semi-weighted keys.

solresol 3y ago
You can also get midi interfaces for cathedral organs; letting you use the organ console to control midi devices, and also letting midi devices control the pipe relays in the pipe organ. Of course, whether you would want to use the OP's app in some giant cathedral is another question.
- williamcotton 3y ago
  I had a Roland MIDI pedal keyboard for awhile, although not for organ music, but for accompanying guitar.

bluGill 3y ago

Strength is an issue, but most of that is 'the only good musician has been dead for at least 100 years'. A good keyboard plays just as well as a geal piano. You can feel the difference so we can't do a real ABX test, which means unlike audio gear we cannot do objective tests. organs have always had their own feel and plenty of greats have proven they sound great.

brudgers 3y ago

Most people don't have a place to put a Steinway, but you can put an MPK Mini MKIII and a laptop in a backpack. And what comes out of the speakers is the only thing that matters. Playing the piano means different things to different people.

ghostpepper 3y ago
Playing the piano and playing music with a 25-key mini keyboard controller are both laudable goals but that doesn't mean they're the same thing.
- brudgers 3y ago
  It doesn’t mean that people don’t mean, playing a 25 key mini keyboard when they want to learn to play the piano, either. It just demonstrates the way in which people gatekeep music.
  - ghostpepper 3y ago
    There's a middle ground between the MPK mini and a steinway. You can get a used Yamaha P-series keyboard with 88 full-size, fully-weighted keys for a few hundred dollars. It won't fit in a backpack but it also won't teach you bad habits _if your goal is to learn to play the acoustic piano_. If your goal is to learn music theory or produce music or anything other than learn to play piano, the mpk is fine. No gatekeeping here.

lizhang 3y ago

i encourage everyone to get started on whatever device is most accessible. if you only have a 49 key midi keyboard without weighted keys, get started on that. just do enough to have some fun and see if this is something you'd like to continue. unless you are very serious about learning classical piano, better to build bad habits and correct them later than to allow this "88 key weighted keyboard only" gatekeeping to stop you from starting the journey

Rodeoclash 3y ago

The thing is, all pianos feel different. It's one of the downsides of the instrument is that you often end up having to play whatever piano is at the event (barring the aforementioned digital pianos that are portable). If all you have is a digital keyboard, don't let that stop you for learning it!

rawrawrawrr 3y ago

It's not a big deal imo. I started on digital piano, moved over a few years to a real piano. The brain adapts quickly.

modeless 3y ago

Weighted 88 key keyboards like Clavinovas are probably the most common pianos these days and they all support MIDI.

robbrown451 3y ago

Any digital piano functions as a midi controller, and many of them have weighted keys. And there are a few "pure" midi controllers that have 88 weighted keys, such as the M-Audio Hammer 88 or StudioLogic SL88.

praash 3y ago
The fact that weighted digital pianos are cheaper than equivalent plain MIDI keyboards is my pet peeve.

jerkstate 3y ago

my opinion (as a dad with kids learning piano, who learned piano as a kid) playing with 88 weighted keys is like learning to write cursive with a fountain pen - maybe artistically interesting, but doesn't matter for the core skills. My kids are learning on 61 key unweighted boards and they're learning melody, rhythm, notation, theory, and all of the things that are about music, not about the particular physiological requirements that a machine originally built in the 1600s imposed.

booi 3y ago
The transition from unweighted to weighted is actually pretty big. I would have preferred to learn on a good weighted keyboard or real piano tbh.
pouyarad_ 3y ago
I spent 10 years playing on a keyboard with unweighted keys and I'm rather certain it affected my desire to practice. The other large part was that my teacher did not spend much time on theory with me. Also, when recitals came around it was a big shift to playing on a grand piano with real weighted keys, and that, coupled with the nerves of playing in front of an audience, often led to mistakes. I think the weighted keys help you feel more physically connected to the instrument with more of your body. Unweighted keys require the same involvement as typing on a computer keyboard.
- rrr_oh_man 3y ago
  > Unweighted keys require the same involvement as typing on a computer keyboard. …and who’d have any fun with that?
crazygringo 3y ago
Weighted keys aren't about requirements from the 1600s, they're about being able to achieve an extremely wide and sensitive dynamic range. Unweighted is fine if you're making synth sounds. And of course for understanding the things you've listed. But you can't actually play emotionally expressive piano music on them -- not in the style of classical or jazz. If you tried to play the Moonlight Sonata first movement, it would sound terrible, because the dynamic shadings couldn't be done. I'm not really sure how you've determined what "core skills" are. Sure, if your kids are only going to spend a couple years learning the very basics, and then move onto other things, then it's fine. But the heart and soul of piano music is in the precise touch to generate the dynamic sensitivity. If you want them to learn how to be emotionally expressive through music, playing either classical or jazz, weighted keys are essential. It's not piano otherwise -- it's a synth. (And going from unweighted to weighted isn't trivial. It's an entirely different muscle memory that needs to be developed. They're fundamentally different instruments.)

beautron 3y ago

I agree that weighted keys are preferable, but it's not about "building finger strength," but rather about building finger coordination. Your fingers are already plenty strong enough for weighted keys (especially once you learn how to take advantage of gravity in your technique). But weighted keys are crucial for building coordination. The resistance of the keys helps you calibrate the connection between your touch and the sound produced. You want both kinesthetic and aural feedback.

turtlebits 3y ago

MIDI doesn't automatically mean no weighted keys. All digital pianos have USB midi, and you can easily pick one a used one with weighted keys for a few hundred on craigslist. My Yamaha U1 piano also came with a box that lets you interface over MIDI.

digger495 3y ago
Some even have 5-pin DIN MIDI

digger495 3y ago

My fully-weighted, 88-key digital piano 100% has MIDI out.

vnorilo 3y ago

It will be quite a while before anything else besides the student just engaging with playing and sticking with it matters at all. IMO. To that end, I think a crappy plastic MIDI keyboard can do a better job than a steinway if it is easier to acquire and accommodate. Being at hand is more important than being just right at this stage. I say this as a music major, but it is not in any way a universal opinion to be sure.

jacquesm 3y ago

There are lots of controllers with weighted keys these days and plenty of entry level MIDI keyboards have excellent keyboards. The big advantage is that you don't need to tune them twice per year and that extra budget is either savings or you can spend it on more lessons. A physical piano is nice (and even those can have 'MIDI out' if you look around for a bit or are prepared to do some DIY) but really not a must. I have both here and spend much more time on my digital just because it is far more convenient, I can practice on it at any time of day even when the kids are sleeping and the feel of the keyboard is as good as the real thing (Yamaha P515, not the cheapest but very good quality).

hhyndman 3y ago

My Roland piano, with weighted keys, has MIDI.