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Im Polish. 20 years ago my parents were taking 1-2 months of PTO every year to work on German farms. 2 months * 2 people and you could’ve renovated a whole mid-

by b212 3y ago

Im Polish. 20 years ago my parents were taking 1-2 months of PTO every year to work on German farms. 2 months * 2 people and you could’ve renovated a whole mid-sized flat or get a decent 3 years old car. Now I’m making 2-3x more after taxes than my German friends. Yes, I’m self employed and yes I’ll need to take care of my own retirement but I’ll be better off after 1-2 years of putting $100k in ETFs than they could ever be with their state pensions. The taxes will kill the old Europe. On the other hand juniors at FAANG in California make more than I do ($160k before taxes, $135k after, how much do you need to earn in Berlin to be left with 135k?).

brnt 3y ago
Here in Western Europe (West) Germany has always been known for its bad wages. Was it Mitterrand who likened German workers to the Chinese, or was it even before that?
eklitzke 3y ago
You think someone earning $160k before taxes in California takes home $135k?
- triceratops 3y ago
  Eh...it's sort of right. If they max out their 401k contributions and count it as take-home (not entirely unreasonable, people save their take-home pay after all) it's about $132k. More if the employer matches 401k contributions.
zrn900 3y ago
What do taxes have to do with German industry going bankrupt because their cheap oil and gas have been cut due to the sanctions against Russia... Those taxes made all that infrastructure that Europe uses possible. From fast trains to ports. Also, those taxes help you avoid paying $1000 per head for healthcare and then up to $18,000 out of pocket every year labeled as 'copay' until the medical insurance picks up... then tries everything it can to reject paying. Then up to $3000/month for a small room in a shared flat for housing, and then a few thousand on food and other costs. And like they said - if you think that juniors in California take home $135k after taxes, you are living in a very different universe.
FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>Now I’m making 2-3x more after taxes than my German friends. Yes, I’m self employed and yes I’ll need to take care of my own retirement but I’ll be better off after 1-2 years of putting $100k in ETFs than they could ever be with their state pensions. It's just means you're in a way more privilege Position as a dev in Poland than devs in Germany, but how does that look at scale, is the average Pole also much better off than the average German? >The taxes will kill the old Europe. Sure, but taxes also pay for infrastructure, healthcare and education which a country needs to flourish. Those high German taxes also contributed to the EU budget out of which Poland has been the highest net beneficiary over the years. How would Poland look today in those areas without the EU money from German taxpayers, and, if every Polish worker was a tax-evading ..err..sorry I mean tax-optimzing IT worker like yourself? What you're advocating is basically "fuck you I got mine, time to kick the ladder down now" as in you enjoyed the benefits of someone else's high taxes to grow but now that you've made it big, are against high taxes, and that my friend doesn't scale, nor build a successful society long term unless you're some small tax heaven country or bracing for rampant wealth and income inequality which I assume is starting to happen in Poland.
- lenkite 3y ago
  > Sure, but taxes also pay for infrastructure, healthcare and education which a country needs to flourish German taxpayers are also now paying for 2nd highest word-wide foreign aid and €8 billion as military aid to Kyiv.

by b212 3y ago

brnt 3y ago

Here in Western Europe (West) Germany has always been known for its bad wages. Was it Mitterrand who likened German workers to the Chinese, or was it even before that?

eklitzke 3y ago

You think someone earning $160k before taxes in California takes home $135k?

triceratops 3y ago
Eh...it's sort of right. If they max out their 401k contributions and count it as take-home (not entirely unreasonable, people save their take-home pay after all) it's about $132k. More if the employer matches 401k contributions.

zrn900 3y ago

What do taxes have to do with German industry going bankrupt because their cheap oil and gas have been cut due to the sanctions against Russia... Those taxes made all that infrastructure that Europe uses possible. From fast trains to ports. Also, those taxes help you avoid paying $1000 per head for healthcare and then up to $18,000 out of pocket every year labeled as 'copay' until the medical insurance picks up... then tries everything it can to reject paying. Then up to $3000/month for a small room in a shared flat for housing, and then a few thousand on food and other costs. And like they said - if you think that juniors in California take home $135k after taxes, you are living in a very different universe.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

>Now I’m making 2-3x more after taxes than my German friends. Yes, I’m self employed and yes I’ll need to take care of my own retirement but I’ll be better off after 1-2 years of putting $100k in ETFs than they could ever be with their state pensions. It's just means you're in a way more privilege Position as a dev in Poland than devs in Germany, but how does that look at scale, is the average Pole also much better off than the average German? >The taxes will kill the old Europe. Sure, but taxes also pay for infrastructure, healthcare and education which a country needs to flourish. Those high German taxes also contributed to the EU budget out of which Poland has been the highest net beneficiary over the years. How would Poland look today in those areas without the EU money from German taxpayers, and, if every Polish worker was a tax-evading ..err..sorry I mean tax-optimzing IT worker like yourself? What you're advocating is basically "fuck you I got mine, time to kick the ladder down now" as in you enjoyed the benefits of someone else's high taxes to grow but now that you've made it big, are against high taxes, and that my friend doesn't scale, nor build a successful society long term unless you're some small tax heaven country or bracing for rampant wealth and income inequality which I assume is starting to happen in Poland.

lenkite 3y ago
> Sure, but taxes also pay for infrastructure, healthcare and education which a country needs to flourish German taxpayers are also now paying for 2nd highest word-wide foreign aid and €8 billion as military aid to Kyiv.