5 ms·

> The daycare center aesthetic and all this weird pronoun crap achieves the same ends. If everyone around you is an androgynous alien speaking a novel language

> The daycare center aesthetic and all this weird pronoun crap achieves the same ends. If everyone around you is an androgynous alien speaking a novel language and communications mishaps will get you fired, you won't feel comfortable working there. I'd argue that if you can remember people's names, you can remember their preferred pronouns - and that if you can't, or refuse to because you think it's "weird crap", they won't feel comfortable with you working there either.

jstarfish 3y ago
I'm terrible with names, but that's my own problem. I don't do voicemail or pronouns either. The rest of it is being ostracized for refusing to acknowledge the black floor tiles are lava. Redefining the reality of others is literal brainwashing. In fostering this sort of environment you're running a cult, not a company.
- lostlogin 3y ago
  > I don't do voicemail or pronouns either. You don’t use any pronouns?
  - pavel_lishin 3y ago
    She says she doesn't, but I is clearly a pronoun.
- plagiarist 3y ago
  It's funny to whine that, "redefining the reality of others is literal brainwashing," but you obviously feel quite comfortable redefining the reality of the people you misgender for them.
  - jstarfish 3y ago
    Nice try. "Misgendering" happens to be my favorite example of modern sophistry. When you're afflicted with gender dysphoria, technically it's you who's engaging in misgendering since you refuse to recognize your own gender (or its pronouns). It starts with you. But self-loathing doesn't make for a compelling persecution story, so you project it onto me. It's my fault. I'm hurting you, by not validating your beliefs. This is actual fucking coercion. I thought we're all about consent these days? I don't consent to you mindfucking me. You make it sound like I go out of my way to rub it in people's faces, but I don't. I just want to be left alone. I'll call anybody whatever they want, if they address me as Oh Glorious Leader in return.
    - plagiarist 3y ago
      ("These days?" When were "we" not about consent?) Maybe you're having trouble finding companies that won't fire you because companies are selecting for employees who recognize peers as actual humans. You won't take my advice, but I think you should consider that other perspectives exist and try to grow.
- pavel_lishin 3y ago
  Sorry, who doesn't do pronouns?
mewpmewp2 3y ago
To be fair, even remembering the names is really difficult, especially working in a large org, many people I see only once or twice or have just heard about. With pronouns most of the time I can luckily just resort to "them" if I am unsure. I frequently in a meeting am unsure if I have or when I have met the person before, although I do find their face familiar. That is the first level of awkwardness to solve for me. Should I tell them "nice to meet you!" or "great to see you again after such a long time!".
- jstarfish 3y ago
  Yeah this ends up being exactly what I do, in addition to avoiding high-conflict individuals altogether. I can't handle the actual headache of keeping up with everyone's arbitrary titles. I'm not your Tumblr mutual or a goddamn MUSH engine. I'll humor transpeople since they offer some visual cue in either direction but enbies are deliberately obtuse and go ballistic when you get it wrong. I have more issue playing ball with them since this cycle amounts to coercive obedience training.
  - pavel_lishin 3y ago
    Perhaps people "go ballistic" because you're refusing to respect them, and "humor" them instead?

jstarfish 3y ago

I'm terrible with names, but that's my own problem. I don't do voicemail or pronouns either. The rest of it is being ostracized for refusing to acknowledge the black floor tiles are lava. Redefining the reality of others is literal brainwashing. In fostering this sort of environment you're running a cult, not a company.

lostlogin 3y ago
> I don't do voicemail or pronouns either. You don’t use any pronouns?
- pavel_lishin 3y ago
  She says she doesn't, but I is clearly a pronoun.
plagiarist 3y ago
It's funny to whine that, "redefining the reality of others is literal brainwashing," but you obviously feel quite comfortable redefining the reality of the people you misgender for them.
- jstarfish 3y ago
  Nice try. "Misgendering" happens to be my favorite example of modern sophistry. When you're afflicted with gender dysphoria, technically it's you who's engaging in misgendering since you refuse to recognize your own gender (or its pronouns). It starts with you. But self-loathing doesn't make for a compelling persecution story, so you project it onto me. It's my fault. I'm hurting you, by not validating your beliefs. This is actual fucking coercion. I thought we're all about consent these days? I don't consent to you mindfucking me. You make it sound like I go out of my way to rub it in people's faces, but I don't. I just want to be left alone. I'll call anybody whatever they want, if they address me as Oh Glorious Leader in return.
  - plagiarist 3y ago
    ("These days?" When were "we" not about consent?) Maybe you're having trouble finding companies that won't fire you because companies are selecting for employees who recognize peers as actual humans. You won't take my advice, but I think you should consider that other perspectives exist and try to grow.
pavel_lishin 3y ago
Sorry, who doesn't do pronouns?

mewpmewp2 3y ago

To be fair, even remembering the names is really difficult, especially working in a large org, many people I see only once or twice or have just heard about. With pronouns most of the time I can luckily just resort to "them" if I am unsure. I frequently in a meeting am unsure if I have or when I have met the person before, although I do find their face familiar. That is the first level of awkwardness to solve for me. Should I tell them "nice to meet you!" or "great to see you again after such a long time!".

jstarfish 3y ago
Yeah this ends up being exactly what I do, in addition to avoiding high-conflict individuals altogether. I can't handle the actual headache of keeping up with everyone's arbitrary titles. I'm not your Tumblr mutual or a goddamn MUSH engine. I'll humor transpeople since they offer some visual cue in either direction but enbies are deliberately obtuse and go ballistic when you get it wrong. I have more issue playing ball with them since this cycle amounts to coercive obedience training.
- pavel_lishin 3y ago
  Perhaps people "go ballistic" because you're refusing to respect them, and "humor" them instead?