3 ms·

This looks like a very solid critique of Deepmind's recent paper, or how it mislead people into regarding its results as much stronger than they really are. How

by tromp 3y ago

This looks like a very solid critique of Deepmind's recent paper, or how it mislead people into regarding its results as much stronger than they really are. However I think the autor goes a bit astray at > The paper mentions that the model could not follow the "don't repeat the same board position three times in a row" rule (aka "threefold repetition"). That is not the rule. It is not illegal to repeat a position for a third time. The rule only says that a player can claim a draw in the case of a three fold repetition [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threefold_repetition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threefold_repetition

sf-wy 3y ago
Fair point! Usually in online chess, it auto-draws the game. I guess there's an assumption that that's what the players want / not running out of time in blitz games.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
  Slight inaccuracy. I don't think it autodraws on your behalf right away, but if you repeat it even more(there may also be a setting to automatically claim a draw on 3, not sure). Not sure what the different servers do exactly, but i think based on experience that's what's happening. There is a little known rule in tournament chess that if a position is reached 5 times, an arbiter can step in and rule the game as a draw without a claim. Usually only comes up in scholastic tournaments and very rarely in blitz tournaments.
  - hugh-avherald 3y ago
    The fivefold repetition rule says that the game is drawn in the event of a fivefold repetition, regardless of actions by the arbiter or either player. (Indeed, regardless of whether an arbiter is present.) So if it's later discovered to have occurred in a game which White apparently won by checkmate, then the win is void. The rule also places a duty on the arbiter to intervene, but a failure on the arbiter to intervene has no bearing on the outcome.
    - mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
      My bad, I did not know those details. I don't think I've ever heard of a case where it's happened this way in tournament play. I bet it has though. Do you happen to know if this can be applied even several rounds later, in a swiss format? In most tournaments, even if there are score sheets, the arbiters rarely look over the game if the players agree on the result. And sometimes I don't look over my own games until a few days later if I'm disgusted enough with how I played...

by tromp 3y ago

sf-wy 3y ago

Fair point! Usually in online chess, it auto-draws the game. I guess there's an assumption that that's what the players want / not running out of time in blitz games.

mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
Slight inaccuracy. I don't think it autodraws on your behalf right away, but if you repeat it even more(there may also be a setting to automatically claim a draw on 3, not sure). Not sure what the different servers do exactly, but i think based on experience that's what's happening. There is a little known rule in tournament chess that if a position is reached 5 times, an arbiter can step in and rule the game as a draw without a claim. Usually only comes up in scholastic tournaments and very rarely in blitz tournaments.
- hugh-avherald 3y ago
  The fivefold repetition rule says that the game is drawn in the event of a fivefold repetition, regardless of actions by the arbiter or either player. (Indeed, regardless of whether an arbiter is present.) So if it's later discovered to have occurred in a game which White apparently won by checkmate, then the win is void. The rule also places a duty on the arbiter to intervene, but a failure on the arbiter to intervene has no bearing on the outcome.
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
    My bad, I did not know those details. I don't think I've ever heard of a case where it's happened this way in tournament play. I bet it has though. Do you happen to know if this can be applied even several rounds later, in a swiss format? In most tournaments, even if there are score sheets, the arbiters rarely look over the game if the players agree on the result. And sometimes I don't look over my own games until a few days later if I'm disgusted enough with how I played...