3 ms·

The purpose of a system is what it does

31 points by acqbu 3y ago

tuatoru 3y ago
Yes, the purpose of the COP system (climate change Conference Of the Parties) is to cause tens of thousands of flights and hotel stays, and the consumption of tons of conference food.
- StreetChief 3y ago
  Hopefully the conference produces more than just tourism. [edit] But if it doesn't, then it's just a fun trip for the delegates.
bakchodi 3y ago
[dead]
j7ake 3y ago
But how long of a time frame are you allowed before you make this judgement on what a system does? Clearly any sufficiently new system will do “nothing”, because not enough time has passed to produce results.
- StreetChief 3y ago
  If a system takes action, or affects something, those effects, or lack of, are notable. For an electronic system it's simple - it is powered on. [edit] You can also consider the transient and steady states: [1] steady state: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steady_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steady_state [2] transient https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_state [edit] My comment about the start doesn't actually address your concern about the end of the transient state. I think there are options. Any observable result can be considered the output of the system. [edit] Yoda would say "do or do not, there is no try." I prefer "there is only trying." [edit] i need coffee >.<
  - j7ake 3y ago
    Your answer does not address the time component. Take an example: an electronic system is designed to give a solution to the traveling salesman problem on a list of a billion of destinations. You turn the system “on” so it can start doing the calculation. How long should you have to wait to get your desired answer? It may take longer than the lifetime of the universe. Until the system spits out an answer, the electronic system is no different than a system that just sits there and does nothing.
    - StreetChief 3y ago
      As you describe it, the system is worthless then and does nothing. How long to wait is up to you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem [Edit] Any observations can be an event, and a stopping point. [Edit] I could put a resistor on the table and call it a system, and wait for it eternally, but I'm not sure that's useful. You need a desired outcome, and some limits to make rational decisions. Actually, mathematically, we can find certain limits. [Edit] You also can't prove a negative, as some future state may eventually disprove it. So you will have to assert something like "I expect such results at such time."

31 points by acqbu 3y ago

Yes, the purpose of the COP system (climate change Conference Of the Parties) is to cause tens of thousands of flights and hotel stays, and the consumption of tons of conference food.

StreetChief 3y ago
Hopefully the conference produces more than just tourism. [edit] But if it doesn't, then it's just a fun trip for the delegates.

bakchodi 3y ago

[dead]

j7ake 3y ago

But how long of a time frame are you allowed before you make this judgement on what a system does? Clearly any sufficiently new system will do “nothing”, because not enough time has passed to produce results.

StreetChief 3y ago
If a system takes action, or affects something, those effects, or lack of, are notable. For an electronic system it's simple - it is powered on. [edit] You can also consider the transient and steady states: [1] steady state: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steady_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steady_state [2] transient https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_state [edit] My comment about the start doesn't actually address your concern about the end of the transient state. I think there are options. Any observable result can be considered the output of the system. [edit] Yoda would say "do or do not, there is no try." I prefer "there is only trying." [edit] i need coffee >.<
- j7ake 3y ago
  Your answer does not address the time component. Take an example: an electronic system is designed to give a solution to the traveling salesman problem on a list of a billion of destinations. You turn the system “on” so it can start doing the calculation. How long should you have to wait to get your desired answer? It may take longer than the lifetime of the universe. Until the system spits out an answer, the electronic system is no different than a system that just sits there and does nothing.
  - StreetChief 3y ago
    As you describe it, the system is worthless then and does nothing. How long to wait is up to you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem [Edit] Any observations can be an event, and a stopping point. [Edit] I could put a resistor on the table and call it a system, and wait for it eternally, but I'm not sure that's useful. You need a desired outcome, and some limits to make rational decisions. Actually, mathematically, we can find certain limits. [Edit] You also can't prove a negative, as some future state may eventually disprove it. So you will have to assert something like "I expect such results at such time."