5 ms·

> Some may consider it the end-goal, to be fair - as eventually you'd drive landlords completely out of business. Great! Housing should never have been allowed

> Some may consider it the end-goal, to be fair - as eventually you'd drive landlords completely out of business. Great! Housing should never have been allowed to become a commodity.

lotsofpulp 3y ago
Did you read the rest of the comment? How do you solve the problem of condo owners not maintaining a property and letting problems fester for a couple decades after which they might be dead or move out?
- seszett 3y ago
  Condos are just a kind of appartement, right? There is normally a kind of owners assembly in which the various owners can take (binding) decisions or action regarding such problems or anything that concerns the building as a whole. It might not be mandatory in all countries I suppose, but it should be.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    It's called a home owner's associate or condo board or similar. And a relatively common issue is underfunding it, so one of the things you have to be aware of if buying a "used" condo is how funded the association is, or you may find that the "deal" you got compared to others in the area is because you're going to be hit with a $50k additional assessment in a few years to fix deferred maintenance. Extreme examples include: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_condominium_collapse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_condominium_collapse
carom 3y ago
This is really the theme of this thread. You hate renters and want a world of single family homes or massive government intervention. Landlords meet a housing need, taking property they own and subdividing it so it is affordable for others to live in an area.
- lazide 3y ago
  It wouldn't surprise me if they are personally a frustrated renter who can't see or manage the expectations that are making them frustrated. Been there, it sucks. Turns out I had a deeply manipulative set of folks around me at the time, and I was also wildly desensitized/in denial to my own needs. I cannot express how much pain occurred to figure that out! Still occurring. The good news for them is, in 5-10 years the dynamics will likely look very different. It's already been changing against landlords, for instance with the covid rent holds, rent control expanding in some areas, cost of money rising and changing market dynamics, etc. I expect a lot of landlords will be trying to exit shortly, and the ones who think they can't are going to be trying to squeeze as much return as they can - as their expected future return due to speculative property prices disappears. So poster - it might be more worthwhile taking an inventory of who is around you (and if the influence they have is helping you), what YOU actually want your life to look like long term and your own values, and figure out how to get there and if you're willing to pay that price or not.
lazide 3y ago
The pro of it being a commodity (widely available, easily traded, of easily quantifiable quality and accessible quantity) is important to get what you say you want! For 'sellers', it actually makes life a bit harder as they have much smaller profit margins in general and need to get very good at what they do to compete. If you think making housing not a commodity is going to make it easier to access, you're not paying attention. It may produce more bespoke, custom houses though. But they'll only go to those who can afford to do a LOT more to get it. The reason why that listing has a $15k broker fee is exactly BECAUSE of the weird and hard to deal with reality that is a rent controlled apartment in NYC. There are probably other off the books type things going on too, IMO. If you want something transparent and easy to get for the average person, making it a commodity with clear rules is exactly what you want! If you want to incentivize gaming the system, the other direction encourages that. Regardless of if it is a commodity or not, there needs to be constant vigilance regarding manipulation, scams, etc. Scams and manipulations are easier to hide when goods AREN'T commodities. There are some amazing horror stories (on both 'sides' of the economy) behind NYC rent controlled apartments and living in NYC in general. [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/commodity https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/commodity] From the link: "1 : an economic good: such as a : a product of agriculture or mining agricultural commodities like grain and corn b : an article of commerce especially when delivered for shipment reported the damaged commodities to officials c : a mass-produced unspecialized product commodity chemicals commodity memory chips 2 a : something useful or valued that valuable commodity, patience also : THING, ENTITY b : CONVENIENCE, ADVANTAGE … the many commodities incidental to the life of a public office … —Charles Lamb 3 : a good or service whose wide availability typically leads to smaller profit margins and diminishes the importance of factors (such as brand name) other than price 4 : one that is subject to ready exchange or exploitation within a market … stars as individuals and as commodities of the film industry. —Film Quarterly 5 obsolete : QUANTITY, LOT"

> Some may consider it the end-goal, to be fair - as eventually you'd drive landlords completely out of business. Great! Housing should never have been allowed to become a commodity.

lotsofpulp 3y ago

Did you read the rest of the comment? How do you solve the problem of condo owners not maintaining a property and letting problems fester for a couple decades after which they might be dead or move out?

seszett 3y ago
Condos are just a kind of appartement, right? There is normally a kind of owners assembly in which the various owners can take (binding) decisions or action regarding such problems or anything that concerns the building as a whole. It might not be mandatory in all countries I suppose, but it should be.
- bombcar 3y ago
  It's called a home owner's associate or condo board or similar. And a relatively common issue is underfunding it, so one of the things you have to be aware of if buying a "used" condo is how funded the association is, or you may find that the "deal" you got compared to others in the area is because you're going to be hit with a $50k additional assessment in a few years to fix deferred maintenance. Extreme examples include: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_condominium_collapse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_condominium_collapse

carom 3y ago

This is really the theme of this thread. You hate renters and want a world of single family homes or massive government intervention. Landlords meet a housing need, taking property they own and subdividing it so it is affordable for others to live in an area.

lazide 3y ago
It wouldn't surprise me if they are personally a frustrated renter who can't see or manage the expectations that are making them frustrated. Been there, it sucks. Turns out I had a deeply manipulative set of folks around me at the time, and I was also wildly desensitized/in denial to my own needs. I cannot express how much pain occurred to figure that out! Still occurring. The good news for them is, in 5-10 years the dynamics will likely look very different. It's already been changing against landlords, for instance with the covid rent holds, rent control expanding in some areas, cost of money rising and changing market dynamics, etc. I expect a lot of landlords will be trying to exit shortly, and the ones who think they can't are going to be trying to squeeze as much return as they can - as their expected future return due to speculative property prices disappears. So poster - it might be more worthwhile taking an inventory of who is around you (and if the influence they have is helping you), what YOU actually want your life to look like long term and your own values, and figure out how to get there and if you're willing to pay that price or not.

lazide 3y ago

The pro of it being a commodity (widely available, easily traded, of easily quantifiable quality and accessible quantity) is important to get what you say you want! For 'sellers', it actually makes life a bit harder as they have much smaller profit margins in general and need to get very good at what they do to compete. If you think making housing not a commodity is going to make it easier to access, you're not paying attention. It may produce more bespoke, custom houses though. But they'll only go to those who can afford to do a LOT more to get it. The reason why that listing has a $15k broker fee is exactly BECAUSE of the weird and hard to deal with reality that is a rent controlled apartment in NYC. There are probably other off the books type things going on too, IMO. If you want something transparent and easy to get for the average person, making it a commodity with clear rules is exactly what you want! If you want to incentivize gaming the system, the other direction encourages that. Regardless of if it is a commodity or not, there needs to be constant vigilance regarding manipulation, scams, etc. Scams and manipulations are easier to hide when goods AREN'T commodities. There are some amazing horror stories (on both 'sides' of the economy) behind NYC rent controlled apartments and living in NYC in general. [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/commodity https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/commodity] From the link: "1 : an economic good: such as a : a product of agriculture or mining agricultural commodities like grain and corn b : an article of commerce especially when delivered for shipment reported the damaged commodities to officials c : a mass-produced unspecialized product commodity chemicals commodity memory chips 2 a : something useful or valued that valuable commodity, patience also : THING, ENTITY b : CONVENIENCE, ADVANTAGE … the many commodities incidental to the life of a public office … —Charles Lamb 3 : a good or service whose wide availability typically leads to smaller profit margins and diminishes the importance of factors (such as brand name) other than price 4 : one that is subject to ready exchange or exploitation within a market … stars as individuals and as commodities of the film industry. —Film Quarterly 5 obsolete : QUANTITY, LOT"