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Eh even then, if I'm sitting on a park bench smoking and you sit next to me, there's a certain measurable harm that you get because I'm smoking. But if I'm just

Eh even then, if I'm sitting on a park bench smoking and you sit next to me, there's a certain measurable harm that you get because I'm smoking. But if I'm just scrolling HN on my phone? You can sit there and not be bothered at all.

berkes 3y ago
If, instead of scrolling HN, you talked to me, both our lives would improve. Human contact, even with strangers, has a profound impact on health, mental state and quality of life. This has been researched and proven over and over. We are simply wired to function in social groups. Our current state of individualism is rather exceptional, and a cause for many issues with (mental) health. So, yes, you scrolling HN has an effect on my health, because the reverse is unfortunately true too: loneliness (and isolation etc) have a negative effect on humans
- vigilans 3y ago
  "If, instead of scrolling HN, you talked to me, both our lives would improve." You haven't talked to me :D
  - polishdude20 3y ago
    Yeah, it takes two people to talk and if I'm on my phone and someone starts talking to me, I'm more than willing to put it down and talk.
- JadeNB 3y ago
  > If, instead of scrolling HN, you talked to me, both our lives would improve. I'm wholly in sympathy with the idea that public life would be better if we spent less of it on our phone, but counting every good deed left undone as a harm done is a very dangerous road to go down.
  - berkes 3y ago
    Fair point. I wasn't seeing it as a "good deed left undone" but as a normalized state that has been unbalanced by phones and individualism. That the norm is a place where humans talk, collaborate, and have deep connections in small social groups. The way humans have lived for millions of years. I guess looking at it from a more practical perspective of individualism being the norm from which we should break through good deeds, is a far more effective and realistic way. Thanks.
- giantrobot 3y ago
  > If, instead of scrolling HN, you talked to me, both our lives would improve. Citation needed. The cohort that wants to talk to random strangers in my experience 1) significantly overvalue their opinions 2) seem unbothered by any behavior or body language saying "please leave me alone" and 3) are not nearly as interesting as they think. Just because I'm outdoors doesn't mean I signed up to be bothered by randos.
- krisoft 3y ago
  > If, instead of scrolling HN, you talked to me, both our lives would improve. It might be just my big city upbringing but the random people chatting me up in public almost always want something from me I would rather not give them. Most of them want my literal money. Either by scamming me or by just begging. Those who don’t usually want to tell me about their faith and try to get me converted. Not saying it is all interactions. Have a few positive ones too, but the wast majority is not. The reason I am very skeptical about talking with strangers is evidence based and has nothing to do with phones. In fact it predates smartphones by decades. The idea that baning phone usage is going to make people less lonely is in itself preposterous. If you see me on my phone in public most likely i’m talking with one of my friends. If you are feeling so lonely that you want to force me to interact with you instead of them, then maybe you are the one who has a problem? Like join a club, invite people over for some board games or volunteer.
  - LouisSayers 3y ago
    I believe this is most likely a big city mindset (for good reason). After living in London a few years and returning back home, I realised how defensive and wary I'd become of stranger interaction. In London people might be trying to pickpocket you or sell you something, but in smaller towns I've found most of the time people are genuinely being friendly or asking for directions etc
  - renewiltord 3y ago
    I've almost always lived in big cities myself and had many pleasant conversations. But I'm pretty good at profiling.
  - lloeki 3y ago
    It might come as shocking, but it used to be the case that one could meet new people in the street, because the probability of positive human contact dwarfed the scammers or beggars you describe. Couples that met on a bus commute was a trope with a basis in reality; nowadays everyone's isolated, headphones on, eyes glued on a phone. The first reaction to human contact in public spaces is one of distrust and defence. > The idea that baning phone usage is going to make people less lonely is in itself preposterous. It's not magic; it's a signal, a public statement.
- rascul 3y ago
  > If, instead of scrolling HN, you talked to me, both our lives would improve. Talking to random strangers in public is generally very awkward and unpleasant for me and I don't see how subjecting myself to that would improve my life in the general case.
  - berkes 3y ago
    Me too. But science tells it's the reverse. Obv. statistics, so it doesn't apply to your personal situation. Yet, I, introvert++ have had the best moments when travelling, talked to random strangers or exchanged beers, music and stories when stuck in transport. This still comes out as net positive for me in all the decades of having awkward conversations, unwanted attention or just social interaction. I won't give up those hundred of situations that made me uncomfortable for the few that truly changed my life.
- fzeroracer 3y ago
  The last thing my introverted-ass wants to experience is someone assuming that they're making my life better by randomly chatting with me on the street. I spend all day at work talking with people, being in meetings and having said human contact. Outside of work I prefer to control that contact, hence why I walk around in public with big obvious headphones on.
- dotnet00 3y ago
  As an introvert the last thing I want is random people deciding that me trying to enjoy some peace on a park bench is license to try to "improve" my life by talking to me. Almost every stranger who has thought they were "improving" my life by talking to me, has either had no impact, or actively made it worse. Plus, it's such a culturally dependent thing, Americans are known for always engaging in little bits of random conversation and pleasantries with total strangers, but other cultures can see it as either cheap and shallow or weird and creepy, and of course if someone sees it as either of those, it isn't going to help their loneliness.
- powersnail 3y ago
  I wouldn't chat with strangers sitting on a bench with or without a phone. I say this as someone who often walks in parks without taking out my phones. If there's a claim that my not talking is affecting other people's health, I'll counter claim that such a burden of socializing is a kind of peer pressure, and it is negatively affecting my mental health. > We are simply wired to function in social groups. A stranger on the bench is not my social groups. I have my friends and circles to whom I talk, and that's good enough for me. Talking with utter strangers on random occasion is stressful to me; I'm quite certain that I'm not wired to do it.
coldtea 3y ago
I'd take second hand smoke over an unsociable society of human-zombies scrolling around in public.
- throwanem 3y ago
  After twenty years smoking and close to a decade quit I still can't smell it but want to light up one of my own. (I'd say 'bum one', but even so evanescent an unplanned interaction seems to take people the wrong way, these days...) I'd still call it the same way you would, if anyone gave me the chance. Wouldn't even have to think it over.
- standardUser 3y ago
  Where do you live that you feel like you are surrounded by scrolling zombies?
  - coldtea 3y ago
    In Western Europe, but does it matter? Most modern cities would qualify...
    - standardUser 3y ago
      I live in Manhattan and I would not describe the scene here as 'zombies on phones'. If there is noticeable anti-social trend here it would be headphones, not scrolling.
ur-whale 3y ago
> You can sit there and not be bothered at all. Radiations man, radiations!
throw98989 3y ago
> there's a certain measurable harm that you get because I'm smoking Do you really believe that? Do you actually believe you get a "measurable harm" due to a few minutes of so-called "second hand smoke"? Does ANYONE actually believe that? I'm not sure how people just buy into small memes and make no use of common sense, whatsoever.
- tmtvl 3y ago
  > Does ANYONE actually believe that? Yes: https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/secondhand-smoke/health.html https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/secondhand-smoke/health.html
  - throw98989 3y ago
    [flagged]

berkes 3y ago

If, instead of scrolling HN, you talked to me, both our lives would improve. Human contact, even with strangers, has a profound impact on health, mental state and quality of life. This has been researched and proven over and over. We are simply wired to function in social groups. Our current state of individualism is rather exceptional, and a cause for many issues with (mental) health. So, yes, you scrolling HN has an effect on my health, because the reverse is unfortunately true too: loneliness (and isolation etc) have a negative effect on humans

vigilans 3y ago
"If, instead of scrolling HN, you talked to me, both our lives would improve." You haven't talked to me :D
- polishdude20 3y ago
  Yeah, it takes two people to talk and if I'm on my phone and someone starts talking to me, I'm more than willing to put it down and talk.
JadeNB 3y ago
> If, instead of scrolling HN, you talked to me, both our lives would improve. I'm wholly in sympathy with the idea that public life would be better if we spent less of it on our phone, but counting every good deed left undone as a harm done is a very dangerous road to go down.
- berkes 3y ago
  Fair point. I wasn't seeing it as a "good deed left undone" but as a normalized state that has been unbalanced by phones and individualism. That the norm is a place where humans talk, collaborate, and have deep connections in small social groups. The way humans have lived for millions of years. I guess looking at it from a more practical perspective of individualism being the norm from which we should break through good deeds, is a far more effective and realistic way. Thanks.
giantrobot 3y ago
> If, instead of scrolling HN, you talked to me, both our lives would improve. Citation needed. The cohort that wants to talk to random strangers in my experience 1) significantly overvalue their opinions 2) seem unbothered by any behavior or body language saying "please leave me alone" and 3) are not nearly as interesting as they think. Just because I'm outdoors doesn't mean I signed up to be bothered by randos.
krisoft 3y ago
> If, instead of scrolling HN, you talked to me, both our lives would improve. It might be just my big city upbringing but the random people chatting me up in public almost always want something from me I would rather not give them. Most of them want my literal money. Either by scamming me or by just begging. Those who don’t usually want to tell me about their faith and try to get me converted. Not saying it is all interactions. Have a few positive ones too, but the wast majority is not. The reason I am very skeptical about talking with strangers is evidence based and has nothing to do with phones. In fact it predates smartphones by decades. The idea that baning phone usage is going to make people less lonely is in itself preposterous. If you see me on my phone in public most likely i’m talking with one of my friends. If you are feeling so lonely that you want to force me to interact with you instead of them, then maybe you are the one who has a problem? Like join a club, invite people over for some board games or volunteer.
- LouisSayers 3y ago
  I believe this is most likely a big city mindset (for good reason). After living in London a few years and returning back home, I realised how defensive and wary I'd become of stranger interaction. In London people might be trying to pickpocket you or sell you something, but in smaller towns I've found most of the time people are genuinely being friendly or asking for directions etc
- renewiltord 3y ago
  I've almost always lived in big cities myself and had many pleasant conversations. But I'm pretty good at profiling.
- lloeki 3y ago
  It might come as shocking, but it used to be the case that one could meet new people in the street, because the probability of positive human contact dwarfed the scammers or beggars you describe. Couples that met on a bus commute was a trope with a basis in reality; nowadays everyone's isolated, headphones on, eyes glued on a phone. The first reaction to human contact in public spaces is one of distrust and defence. > The idea that baning phone usage is going to make people less lonely is in itself preposterous. It's not magic; it's a signal, a public statement.
rascul 3y ago
> If, instead of scrolling HN, you talked to me, both our lives would improve. Talking to random strangers in public is generally very awkward and unpleasant for me and I don't see how subjecting myself to that would improve my life in the general case.
- berkes 3y ago
  Me too. But science tells it's the reverse. Obv. statistics, so it doesn't apply to your personal situation. Yet, I, introvert++ have had the best moments when travelling, talked to random strangers or exchanged beers, music and stories when stuck in transport. This still comes out as net positive for me in all the decades of having awkward conversations, unwanted attention or just social interaction. I won't give up those hundred of situations that made me uncomfortable for the few that truly changed my life.
fzeroracer 3y ago
The last thing my introverted-ass wants to experience is someone assuming that they're making my life better by randomly chatting with me on the street. I spend all day at work talking with people, being in meetings and having said human contact. Outside of work I prefer to control that contact, hence why I walk around in public with big obvious headphones on.
dotnet00 3y ago
As an introvert the last thing I want is random people deciding that me trying to enjoy some peace on a park bench is license to try to "improve" my life by talking to me. Almost every stranger who has thought they were "improving" my life by talking to me, has either had no impact, or actively made it worse. Plus, it's such a culturally dependent thing, Americans are known for always engaging in little bits of random conversation and pleasantries with total strangers, but other cultures can see it as either cheap and shallow or weird and creepy, and of course if someone sees it as either of those, it isn't going to help their loneliness.
powersnail 3y ago
I wouldn't chat with strangers sitting on a bench with or without a phone. I say this as someone who often walks in parks without taking out my phones. If there's a claim that my not talking is affecting other people's health, I'll counter claim that such a burden of socializing is a kind of peer pressure, and it is negatively affecting my mental health. > We are simply wired to function in social groups. A stranger on the bench is not my social groups. I have my friends and circles to whom I talk, and that's good enough for me. Talking with utter strangers on random occasion is stressful to me; I'm quite certain that I'm not wired to do it.

coldtea 3y ago

I'd take second hand smoke over an unsociable society of human-zombies scrolling around in public.

throwanem 3y ago
After twenty years smoking and close to a decade quit I still can't smell it but want to light up one of my own. (I'd say 'bum one', but even so evanescent an unplanned interaction seems to take people the wrong way, these days...) I'd still call it the same way you would, if anyone gave me the chance. Wouldn't even have to think it over.
standardUser 3y ago
Where do you live that you feel like you are surrounded by scrolling zombies?
- coldtea 3y ago
  In Western Europe, but does it matter? Most modern cities would qualify...
  - standardUser 3y ago
    I live in Manhattan and I would not describe the scene here as 'zombies on phones'. If there is noticeable anti-social trend here it would be headphones, not scrolling.

ur-whale 3y ago

> You can sit there and not be bothered at all. Radiations man, radiations!

throw98989 3y ago

> there's a certain measurable harm that you get because I'm smoking Do you really believe that? Do you actually believe you get a "measurable harm" due to a few minutes of so-called "second hand smoke"? Does ANYONE actually believe that? I'm not sure how people just buy into small memes and make no use of common sense, whatsoever.

tmtvl 3y ago
> Does ANYONE actually believe that? Yes: https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/secondhand-smoke/health.html https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/secondhand-smoke/health.html
- throw98989 3y ago
  [flagged]