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I don’t think this is actually a paradox, even though we generally associate laughter and comedy with happiness. It’s more accurate to say that happiness is aki

I don’t think this is actually a paradox, even though we generally associate laughter and comedy with happiness. It’s more accurate to say that happiness is akin to calmness or contentment, the lack of strong emotions. Personally, after watching a funny comedian, I feel more emotionally exhausted than happy - which makes sense to me from this perspective.

zogrodea 3y ago
Your second paragraph reminds of Aristotle's counter to Plato in one instance. The debate was about whether media (poetry, plays) should be allowed. Plato thought, no, because poetry and other media burden the audience with emotions that have no value in practical life. Aristotle countered that the poem has a "payoff" which relieves these emotions generated by reading the poem, so that the audience feels less emotionally burdened by the time it ends. I particularly like R. G. Collingwood's historical commentary on their debate in The Principles of Art (published 1938), where he talks about our addiction to entertainment and being trapped in a vicious cycle ("one more episode").
- keiferski 3y ago
  Yep, and this is called catharsis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharsis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharsis For more on Plato's thoughts on aesthetics: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/plato-aesthetics/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/plato-aesthetics/ I wouldn't say he was critical of poetry because they weren't "valuable in practical life" as Plato certainly wasn't a pragmatist. It's more that he thought the imitative arts didn't give true knowledge (i.e., a poet talking about war doesn't have actual true knowledge of war) and that poetry/literature often has bad role models that shouldn't be imitated by real people. I used to find Plato's criticisms absurd and difficult to understand, but as media becomes more realistic, more influential, and more willing to display unethical characters in a sympathetic light for the sake of "the market" or "storytelling" I think he is probably correct at some level. I'm thinking of the countless shows which glorify violence, cheating, drug smuggling, and so forth. It's not clear that glorifying these things in the media leads to them being acted out in real life, but even if it doesn't: that still seems like a massive sense of cognitive dissonance, wherein the cultural products of a society are only tenuously related to its real-world values.
  - throwup238 3y ago
    I think Plato's argument is best illustrated by the TV show How TV Ruined Your Life by Charlie Brooker (the creator of Black Mirror). Each episode covers different topics like technology, love, etc. which television has completely warped. It's not even about glorifying some of the worst aspects of humanity, it's about all of our expectations. My favorite concrete example is child birth: it's always portrayed as a quick procedure in the vast majority of TV shows, less than a few minutes from water breaking to the baby popping out. Nothing could be further from the truth and a lot of women get a nasty surprise when they get pregnant and an OBGYN explains what to expect.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
      Consider, in a related vein, what happens when things are just omitted. Miscarriages are an extremely common phenomenon for humans. Yet while our stories about reproduction feature endless variations of the conception, pregnancy, childbirth and child raising parts of the process, very little mention is ever made of miscarriages. As a result, when they happen (which they do a lot), they come as a real shock for people who have not otherwise been exposed to this detail of the human condition, even though they are really quite normal, perhaps even mundane.
      - Vecr 3y ago
        Every single FDA vaccine prescribing guide says "All pregnancies have a risk of birth defect, loss, or other adverse outcomes. In the U.S. general population, the estimated background risk of major birth defects and miscarriage in clinically recognized pregnancies is 2% to 4% and 15% to 20%, respectively" or something very similar. At least try to calibrate your world model for something this important.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    > wherein the cultural products of a society are only tenuously related to its real-world values. I don't know if Plato does this too, but I'm pretty certain you're making a mistake here. Most (almost all, I would argue) of the shows that feature violence, cheating, drug smuggling etc. present them as cautionary tales: do <this> and <that> will probably happen to you, even if there's a brief period between when you think things are going well. Human cultures are full of cautionary tales, and in this sense these "countless shows" are not glorifying their themes, but continuing in the tradition of telling us "don't do this (probably)".
chmod600 3y ago
"It’s more accurate to say that happiness is akin to calmness or contentment, the lack of strong emotions." I'm not sure where you got that definition?
2-718-281-828 3y ago
well ... it either deserves to be called a "paradox" or the term "paradox" cannot be applied to anything and is only of philosophical relevance as the existence of a paradox is impossible by definition. that's why the term is applied for seemingly contradictory observations ...

zogrodea 3y ago

Your second paragraph reminds of Aristotle's counter to Plato in one instance. The debate was about whether media (poetry, plays) should be allowed. Plato thought, no, because poetry and other media burden the audience with emotions that have no value in practical life. Aristotle countered that the poem has a "payoff" which relieves these emotions generated by reading the poem, so that the audience feels less emotionally burdened by the time it ends. I particularly like R. G. Collingwood's historical commentary on their debate in The Principles of Art (published 1938), where he talks about our addiction to entertainment and being trapped in a vicious cycle ("one more episode").

keiferski 3y ago
Yep, and this is called catharsis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharsis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharsis For more on Plato's thoughts on aesthetics: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/plato-aesthetics/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/plato-aesthetics/ I wouldn't say he was critical of poetry because they weren't "valuable in practical life" as Plato certainly wasn't a pragmatist. It's more that he thought the imitative arts didn't give true knowledge (i.e., a poet talking about war doesn't have actual true knowledge of war) and that poetry/literature often has bad role models that shouldn't be imitated by real people. I used to find Plato's criticisms absurd and difficult to understand, but as media becomes more realistic, more influential, and more willing to display unethical characters in a sympathetic light for the sake of "the market" or "storytelling" I think he is probably correct at some level. I'm thinking of the countless shows which glorify violence, cheating, drug smuggling, and so forth. It's not clear that glorifying these things in the media leads to them being acted out in real life, but even if it doesn't: that still seems like a massive sense of cognitive dissonance, wherein the cultural products of a society are only tenuously related to its real-world values.
- throwup238 3y ago
  I think Plato's argument is best illustrated by the TV show How TV Ruined Your Life by Charlie Brooker (the creator of Black Mirror). Each episode covers different topics like technology, love, etc. which television has completely warped. It's not even about glorifying some of the worst aspects of humanity, it's about all of our expectations. My favorite concrete example is child birth: it's always portrayed as a quick procedure in the vast majority of TV shows, less than a few minutes from water breaking to the baby popping out. Nothing could be further from the truth and a lot of women get a nasty surprise when they get pregnant and an OBGYN explains what to expect.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    Consider, in a related vein, what happens when things are just omitted. Miscarriages are an extremely common phenomenon for humans. Yet while our stories about reproduction feature endless variations of the conception, pregnancy, childbirth and child raising parts of the process, very little mention is ever made of miscarriages. As a result, when they happen (which they do a lot), they come as a real shock for people who have not otherwise been exposed to this detail of the human condition, even though they are really quite normal, perhaps even mundane.
    - Vecr 3y ago
      Every single FDA vaccine prescribing guide says "All pregnancies have a risk of birth defect, loss, or other adverse outcomes. In the U.S. general population, the estimated background risk of major birth defects and miscarriage in clinically recognized pregnancies is 2% to 4% and 15% to 20%, respectively" or something very similar. At least try to calibrate your world model for something this important.
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  > wherein the cultural products of a society are only tenuously related to its real-world values. I don't know if Plato does this too, but I'm pretty certain you're making a mistake here. Most (almost all, I would argue) of the shows that feature violence, cheating, drug smuggling etc. present them as cautionary tales: do <this> and <that> will probably happen to you, even if there's a brief period between when you think things are going well. Human cultures are full of cautionary tales, and in this sense these "countless shows" are not glorifying their themes, but continuing in the tradition of telling us "don't do this (probably)".

chmod600 3y ago

"It’s more accurate to say that happiness is akin to calmness or contentment, the lack of strong emotions." I'm not sure where you got that definition?

2-718-281-828 3y ago

well ... it either deserves to be called a "paradox" or the term "paradox" cannot be applied to anything and is only of philosophical relevance as the existence of a paradox is impossible by definition. that's why the term is applied for seemingly contradictory observations ...