4 ms·

> temporary or permanent leave to remain. Off-topic but non-native speakers must find this phrase so confusing the first time they see it.

fauigerzigerk 3y ago
It's actually called "indefinite leave to remain", which almost sounds as if they hadn't made their mind up about leave vs remain. I'm glad they renamed it to "settled status" for EU citizens remaining after the UK decided to leave the EU.
- mynameisvlad 3y ago
  They didn’t rename it to “settled status”, those are two separate things. Settled and pre-settled status is used exclusively by the EU Settlement Scheme and refers to the 5 year requirement (pre-settled) for EU citizens wanting to apply.
  - fauigerzigerk 3y ago
    I know, but it's similar and they could have chosen a similar name.
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
For any non-native speaker who’s confused, leave can mean the same thing as permission, which is how it’s being used here.
- neom 3y ago
  Just to further this who are still confused as to how tf leave became permission. It's a very British thing, I would hazard it might also be specifically English. I grew up in Scotland and we did use it, but I was in a border town, I would be surprised if it's used in Glasgow or Edinburgh (could be wrong) - it comes from the permission to not be at something. I would get "leave from school" meaning I had permission not to be at school, same thing for work. In my opinion, it's basically slang, I'm surprised to see it in official documents (so I guess it's not technically slang).
  - sorokod 3y ago
    It didn't become, it had a sense of permission for a while https://www.etymonline.com/word/leave https://www.etymonline.com/word/leave
  - triceratops 3y ago
    French has the same dual meaning in the verb laisser. It can be used when departing, or allowing. No idea if other Romance languages are similar. I'd hazard that it came into English from French, or maybe the other way around.
    - neom 3y ago
      Apparently some German in there too. Etymology From Old French lesser, lessier, laissier (“to let, let go, leave”), from Latin laxō, laxāre (“to relax, loosen”); partly from or influenced by Old High German lāzan (“to let, let go, leave”) (German lassen), from Proto-West Germanic *lātan (“to let, leave, leave alone”). I can't find anything about it and I've been poking around for the better part of 20 minutes, but my presumption would be this comes from Royal Court, to take leave of the court or the presence of the Royal estate? I'm guessing you would be granted permission to take your leave > take leave > permission. Total guess, however. Who knew leave could be so fun. ;)
  - exe34 3y ago
    Do you have annual leave from work in Scotland? Or is it called something else?
    - neom 3y ago
      You know I've been thinking about this leave thing for over an hour now - it's got me super curious for some reason. I think there is a class thing here as well? I never ever heard anyone say that, take holiday, take time, take off, but take leave... it would sound very posh and jarring to hear someone say that, the only time I can think of was a friend who boarded in England and he took annual leave from boarding school (that's what originally made me think it's an English thing) - Fact is however, I have no idea what I'm talking about and could be writing fan fiction here. Maybe I've found my PhD, ha.
delta_p_delta_x 3y ago
> non-native speakers must find this phrase so confusing Even native speakers struggle with it (i.e. me, when I first saw it being used). 'Leave' in its form meaning 'permission' is only generally used in 'I am on leave from work today'. Many other Commonwealth and Anglophone countries (Australia, NZ, Canada, Singapore) just call it a 'visa validity period'; indefinite leave to remain is 'permanent residency'.
- sanitycheck 3y ago
  In the UK, at least, they don't call it "permanent residency" because it can be revoked quite easily. The "leave to remain" part is implying that one can stay in the country until further notice but does not imply a right to residence. Spend too long abroad over a period of a few years and there's a requirement to "reapply" which may or not be successful.
  - delta_p_delta_x 3y ago
    > Spend too long abroad over a period of a few years and there's a requirement to "reapply" This applies to many other countries' so-called permanent residencies as well. It could be revoked if one spends a long period abroad, or collects a (local or foreign) criminal record, or otherwise gets in the granting government's bad books. They're permanent only in name.
  - simonklitj 3y ago
    Same in the US. As a green card holder, I cannot leave the U.S. for more than a year. If I do, I lose my permanent resident status.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

fauigerzigerk 3y ago

It's actually called "indefinite leave to remain", which almost sounds as if they hadn't made their mind up about leave vs remain. I'm glad they renamed it to "settled status" for EU citizens remaining after the UK decided to leave the EU.

mynameisvlad 3y ago
They didn’t rename it to “settled status”, those are two separate things. Settled and pre-settled status is used exclusively by the EU Settlement Scheme and refers to the 5 year requirement (pre-settled) for EU citizens wanting to apply.
- fauigerzigerk 3y ago
  I know, but it's similar and they could have chosen a similar name.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago

For any non-native speaker who’s confused, leave can mean the same thing as permission, which is how it’s being used here.

neom 3y ago
Just to further this who are still confused as to how tf leave became permission. It's a very British thing, I would hazard it might also be specifically English. I grew up in Scotland and we did use it, but I was in a border town, I would be surprised if it's used in Glasgow or Edinburgh (could be wrong) - it comes from the permission to not be at something. I would get "leave from school" meaning I had permission not to be at school, same thing for work. In my opinion, it's basically slang, I'm surprised to see it in official documents (so I guess it's not technically slang).
- sorokod 3y ago
  It didn't become, it had a sense of permission for a while https://www.etymonline.com/word/leave https://www.etymonline.com/word/leave
- triceratops 3y ago
  French has the same dual meaning in the verb laisser. It can be used when departing, or allowing. No idea if other Romance languages are similar. I'd hazard that it came into English from French, or maybe the other way around.
  - neom 3y ago
    Apparently some German in there too. Etymology From Old French lesser, lessier, laissier (“to let, let go, leave”), from Latin laxō, laxāre (“to relax, loosen”); partly from or influenced by Old High German lāzan (“to let, let go, leave”) (German lassen), from Proto-West Germanic *lātan (“to let, leave, leave alone”). I can't find anything about it and I've been poking around for the better part of 20 minutes, but my presumption would be this comes from Royal Court, to take leave of the court or the presence of the Royal estate? I'm guessing you would be granted permission to take your leave > take leave > permission. Total guess, however. Who knew leave could be so fun. ;)
- exe34 3y ago
  Do you have annual leave from work in Scotland? Or is it called something else?
  - neom 3y ago
    You know I've been thinking about this leave thing for over an hour now - it's got me super curious for some reason. I think there is a class thing here as well? I never ever heard anyone say that, take holiday, take time, take off, but take leave... it would sound very posh and jarring to hear someone say that, the only time I can think of was a friend who boarded in England and he took annual leave from boarding school (that's what originally made me think it's an English thing) - Fact is however, I have no idea what I'm talking about and could be writing fan fiction here. Maybe I've found my PhD, ha.

delta_p_delta_x 3y ago

> non-native speakers must find this phrase so confusing Even native speakers struggle with it (i.e. me, when I first saw it being used). 'Leave' in its form meaning 'permission' is only generally used in 'I am on leave from work today'. Many other Commonwealth and Anglophone countries (Australia, NZ, Canada, Singapore) just call it a 'visa validity period'; indefinite leave to remain is 'permanent residency'.

sanitycheck 3y ago
In the UK, at least, they don't call it "permanent residency" because it can be revoked quite easily. The "leave to remain" part is implying that one can stay in the country until further notice but does not imply a right to residence. Spend too long abroad over a period of a few years and there's a requirement to "reapply" which may or not be successful.
- delta_p_delta_x 3y ago
  > Spend too long abroad over a period of a few years and there's a requirement to "reapply" This applies to many other countries' so-called permanent residencies as well. It could be revoked if one spends a long period abroad, or collects a (local or foreign) criminal record, or otherwise gets in the granting government's bad books. They're permanent only in name.
- simonklitj 3y ago
  Same in the US. As a green card holder, I cannot leave the U.S. for more than a year. If I do, I lose my permanent resident status.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]