5 ms·

If only California was as protective of its values against the many transplants who try and change its culture, the paradox of tolerance, I suppose. Sigh

rpmisms 3y ago
Agreed. Local culture is critical for healthy society.
Broken_Hippo 3y ago
Some values should change. If a trans person (or other minority) cannot go around your town unharassed, I don't understand why you'd want to keep that value instead of valuing humans as humans and treating them as such. Why the fuck would I, being bisexual, move to such a place - where I can't be open about basic things? Why would I move somewhere that friends didn't have that option?
- wizerdrobe 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - Broken_Hippo 3y ago
    The idea that you’d face any kind of threat to life and limb in a small town is an ignorant narcissistic meme. I didn't say that. I said unharassed. I've personally been the victim of these things in small towns. I've personally been ostracized. Bisexual, athiest, and not really caring if my lover's skin tone matched my own. Trans folk have it worse than I ever have. If people in your town aren't pushing back against anti-trans laws and things like that, it isn't good enough. And those things you mention? Yeah, meth is a big issue in rural America. Before production got moved to cartels, I've personally seen more than two buildings that were destroyed because of a home meth lab. Farmers used to find them quite often. Violence is everywhere, and I never said it was perfect. It still shouldn't prevent your area from accepting folks as they are and treating them well. It isn't asking for a pedestal, just wanting to be treated like other folks.
  - JackMorgan 3y ago
    I work a few weekends a year at a manual labor job in a rural-bordering area on the east coast. I have heard at least a dozen different co-workers talking about wanting to execute the gays and trans people. And not once or twice, I'm talking just about every single time there's time to talk. There will be days I hear someone bring up "the trans" as the punchline of a joke every single hour of an eight hour day. I'm sure you aren't the one making death threats, but I guarantee you the people living there receive them frequently. These people are consuming Fox News like it's a daily religious rite, and are convinced their troubles are caused by gay or trans people. This lives rent free in their heads, it's sometimes obviously all they think about. I'd guess it's probably 80% of the people I work with. Of course they're also extremely racist, and will make similar comments about anyone not lily white. It's pretty exhausting, I love the work especially because it's so different from my normal jobs, but holy hell being around such toxic rage and hate really makes it not worth it.
- bingobo 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - Broken_Hippo 3y ago
    Males should use a male bathroom if they decide to gender bathrooms. Women should use the appropriate facilities. Trans men are men, trans women are women. Any person with bad intent can just walk into the other restroom right now. Trans folks aren't those people. I also don't check genitals of folks in the toilet. I simply don't care as long as my stall is private. People shouldn't look between the cracks in the stalls present in the US to check, either. The best solution is unisex toilets with proper, private stalls.
    - bingobo 3y ago
      Many people, even those who are well aware that transwomen are men, are somewhat willing to turn a blind eye in bathrooms because, as you noted in your comment, the stalls are enclosed. But other spaces are much more contentious. Perhaps a less abstract question gets to the point better: do you believe that male-sexed people have the right to undress and shower in a communal changing room with teenage girls? Even progressives who believe that transwomen are women are usually quite uncomfortable giving an affirmative answer to that one.
      - rpmisms 3y ago
        The real answer is that the potential for abuse is very high, and we need to be very careful when shredding very old societal norms.
      - alienthrowaway 3y ago
        > Perhaps a less abstract question gets to the point better: do you believe that male-sexed people have the right to undress and shower in a communal changing room with teenage girls? Should older lesbians have the right to do the same with teenage girls? If you could identify lesbians - would you ban them from those spaces because they may get titillated or molest the kids? The lingering puritanism is fascinating to witness, even as the US becomes less religious
- rpmisms 3y ago
  They wouldn't be harassed. They would simply feel estranged, because there's a comprehension barrier between the people here and the people who've made sexual identity their raison d'être.
  - Broken_Hippo 3y ago
    Just because you wouldn't see it doesn't mean that they wouldn't be harassed. Harassment happens everywhere, but it is more in conservative areas that cling to outdated, selectively applied religious "morals". Estrangement and shunning is a type of abuse and has the same sort of effects as actual harassment. They happen at the same time. Do you think this is an OK alternative? Trans isn't a sexual identity, btw. Might try learning from people better spoken than I am - or even better, from someone actually trans.
    - rpmisms 3y ago
      > Estrangement and shunning is a type of abuse and has the same sort of effects as actual harassment. They happen at the same time. Do you think this is an OK alternative? Yes. Freedom of association is perfectly acceptable, even if it makes people unhappy. > Trans isn't a sexual identity, btw. I'd disagree. It's strongly related to sexuality. I have also had two good friends who were trans, and both killed themselves, one due to depression from realizing they could never be their old self again, the other in a psychotic episode. I'm not anti-trans-people, I'm anti trans-as-the-first-solution for dysphoric disorders. Most people in my area simply don't get good vibes and therefore don't engage.

rpmisms 3y ago

Agreed. Local culture is critical for healthy society.

Broken_Hippo 3y ago

Some values should change. If a trans person (or other minority) cannot go around your town unharassed, I don't understand why you'd want to keep that value instead of valuing humans as humans and treating them as such. Why the fuck would I, being bisexual, move to such a place - where I can't be open about basic things? Why would I move somewhere that friends didn't have that option?

wizerdrobe 3y ago
[flagged]
- Broken_Hippo 3y ago
  The idea that you’d face any kind of threat to life and limb in a small town is an ignorant narcissistic meme. I didn't say that. I said unharassed. I've personally been the victim of these things in small towns. I've personally been ostracized. Bisexual, athiest, and not really caring if my lover's skin tone matched my own. Trans folk have it worse than I ever have. If people in your town aren't pushing back against anti-trans laws and things like that, it isn't good enough. And those things you mention? Yeah, meth is a big issue in rural America. Before production got moved to cartels, I've personally seen more than two buildings that were destroyed because of a home meth lab. Farmers used to find them quite often. Violence is everywhere, and I never said it was perfect. It still shouldn't prevent your area from accepting folks as they are and treating them well. It isn't asking for a pedestal, just wanting to be treated like other folks.
- JackMorgan 3y ago
  I work a few weekends a year at a manual labor job in a rural-bordering area on the east coast. I have heard at least a dozen different co-workers talking about wanting to execute the gays and trans people. And not once or twice, I'm talking just about every single time there's time to talk. There will be days I hear someone bring up "the trans" as the punchline of a joke every single hour of an eight hour day. I'm sure you aren't the one making death threats, but I guarantee you the people living there receive them frequently. These people are consuming Fox News like it's a daily religious rite, and are convinced their troubles are caused by gay or trans people. This lives rent free in their heads, it's sometimes obviously all they think about. I'd guess it's probably 80% of the people I work with. Of course they're also extremely racist, and will make similar comments about anyone not lily white. It's pretty exhausting, I love the work especially because it's so different from my normal jobs, but holy hell being around such toxic rage and hate really makes it not worth it.
bingobo 3y ago
[flagged]
- Broken_Hippo 3y ago
  Males should use a male bathroom if they decide to gender bathrooms. Women should use the appropriate facilities. Trans men are men, trans women are women. Any person with bad intent can just walk into the other restroom right now. Trans folks aren't those people. I also don't check genitals of folks in the toilet. I simply don't care as long as my stall is private. People shouldn't look between the cracks in the stalls present in the US to check, either. The best solution is unisex toilets with proper, private stalls.
  - bingobo 3y ago
    Many people, even those who are well aware that transwomen are men, are somewhat willing to turn a blind eye in bathrooms because, as you noted in your comment, the stalls are enclosed. But other spaces are much more contentious. Perhaps a less abstract question gets to the point better: do you believe that male-sexed people have the right to undress and shower in a communal changing room with teenage girls? Even progressives who believe that transwomen are women are usually quite uncomfortable giving an affirmative answer to that one.
    - rpmisms 3y ago
      The real answer is that the potential for abuse is very high, and we need to be very careful when shredding very old societal norms.
    - alienthrowaway 3y ago
      > Perhaps a less abstract question gets to the point better: do you believe that male-sexed people have the right to undress and shower in a communal changing room with teenage girls? Should older lesbians have the right to do the same with teenage girls? If you could identify lesbians - would you ban them from those spaces because they may get titillated or molest the kids? The lingering puritanism is fascinating to witness, even as the US becomes less religious
rpmisms 3y ago
They wouldn't be harassed. They would simply feel estranged, because there's a comprehension barrier between the people here and the people who've made sexual identity their raison d'être.
- Broken_Hippo 3y ago
  Just because you wouldn't see it doesn't mean that they wouldn't be harassed. Harassment happens everywhere, but it is more in conservative areas that cling to outdated, selectively applied religious "morals". Estrangement and shunning is a type of abuse and has the same sort of effects as actual harassment. They happen at the same time. Do you think this is an OK alternative? Trans isn't a sexual identity, btw. Might try learning from people better spoken than I am - or even better, from someone actually trans.
  - rpmisms 3y ago
    > Estrangement and shunning is a type of abuse and has the same sort of effects as actual harassment. They happen at the same time. Do you think this is an OK alternative? Yes. Freedom of association is perfectly acceptable, even if it makes people unhappy. > Trans isn't a sexual identity, btw. I'd disagree. It's strongly related to sexuality. I have also had two good friends who were trans, and both killed themselves, one due to depression from realizing they could never be their old self again, the other in a psychotic episode. I'm not anti-trans-people, I'm anti trans-as-the-first-solution for dysphoric disorders. Most people in my area simply don't get good vibes and therefore don't engage.